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VMs f57v: Subtle patterns

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• VMs f57v: Subtle patterns

• VMs f57v: Subtle patterns

  R. Sale > 19-07-2020, 05:57 PM

  The 4 x 17 symbol sequence in the penultimate outer band of text has some subtle patterns if the first five symbols are interpreted according to common and traditional methods.
  
  The symbols, given the EVA designations o, l, d, r, v, need to be seen in their Voynichese representations. First of all there are three examples of potential visual interpretation supported by structural placement.
  
  Using medieval numerical symbols of the forms found on Typus Arithmetica, the looping "l' of the second symbol is a numeral "4" and the fifth symbol "v" (actually an inverted "v") matches the numeral "7". The placement of these symbols, two spaces apart is the proper structure in the numerical sequence.
  
  Similarly, using the Greek alphabet, the fifth symbol is the letter "lambda" and the first symbol is the letter "omicron". Here again, the placement is correct. Greek can be read in both directions. Structure helps to confirm interpretation. There is no question about the structure.
  
  Thirdly, "v" is a letter in the Roman alphabet. In this case it is inverted. The same symbol is also used in the Roman Numeral system to represent "5".  It is numeral "5" in position five - inverted. Position matches interpretation.
  
  Greek was also an alpha-numeric system, so that all three interpretations could be numerical.
  
  The sixth symbol in the 4 x 17 sequence is a quincunx. The quincunx is used in astrology to represent a relationship between the primary sign and the fifth sign following. That relationship, as I see it set forth, is one of conflict, blockade, and challenge, suggesting a reexamining and rethinking of the situation.
  
  When the path of medieval numerical interpretation is blocked by the quincunx, it can return via the Greek system and then possibly proceed further using the Roman system (numerals or alphabet) - potentially 'inverted' - whatever that might mean. (Not sure how that works out on paper, but it seems interesting.)
  
  The quincunx as a coin has a numerical value of 5/12. In the VMs Zodiac sequence, the first five houses are the ones containing pairs or were made to be pairs.
  
  The patterns are subtle, but real; meaningful is another question. Further evaluation will help to make that determination.

• RE: VMs f57v: Subtle patterns

  -JKP- > 19-07-2020, 09:45 PM

  For the record... the quincunx symbol was used as the letter "A" in a number of scripts.

• RE: VMs f57v: Subtle patterns

  Ruby Novacna > 20-07-2020, 11:11 AM

  (19-07-2020, 05:57 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Using medieval numerical symbols of the forms found on Typus Arithmetica

  Better to see once than hear a hundred times, please put a picture.

• RE: VMs f57v: Subtle patterns

  -JKP- > 20-07-2020, 11:35 AM

  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  First chart, second row. Note that the 4 is shaped like l and the 7 is like an inverted v. This was the typical style in the early 15th century.

• RE: VMs f57v: Subtle patterns

  R. Sale > 20-07-2020, 05:38 PM

  Well. thanks. JKP. And you're right, Ruby. It's been discussed before, but it's been a while. With the recent growth in ninja membership, maybe bringing old facts up to the surface would help.
  
  The numbers are on her dress., in sequences.
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  So anyway, it's not about just interpreting the symbols. It's also whether and how those symbols in their traditional interpretations fit into a relationship or a structure that is appropriate to that system of interpretation.
  
  Can it be presumed that such an occurrence, a combination of interpretation and structure in a traditional system, can occur by chance and let it go? How about when it occurs three times and the examples are overlapped? This isn't accidental.
  
  Since all three systems of interpretation can be given numerical interpretations, is it possible that they can be combined or work together in some way? Can a linear sequence be constructed if the quincunx acts as a blockade and the Greek sequence is the return?
  
  The interpretation of a quincunx as the letter  "A" is found in where? Some symbols do have multiple interpretations. But let's say that there has to be this second part, this structural component: that the interpretation has to be validated by the spatial (positional) relationship within the VMs sequence according to the relevant, traditional, interpretative system. There may well be other patterns to be found.

• RE: VMs f57v: Subtle patterns

  R. Sale > 01-03-2026, 07:21 PM

  moved

• RE: VMs f57v: Subtle patterns

  NosDa > 06-03-2026, 02:16 AM

  Just a note, the Quincunx (150°) is a 'Minor' aspect that was created by Johannes Kepler. He actually invented lots of new aspects, only a few of which achieved common usage. Kepler was born in the late 16th century.
  
  I believe that there are aspect configurations in the VMs, but they are likely the Ptolemaic 'Major' ones (Square, Trine, Opposition, Sextile, Conjunct) due to the estimated age of the folios.

• RE: VMs f57v: Subtle patterns

  Dana Scott > 06-03-2026, 03:43 AM

  (06-03-2026, 02:16 AM)NosDa Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Just a note, the Quincunx (150°) is a 'Minor' aspect that was created by Johannes Kepler. He actually invented lots of new aspects, only a few of which achieved common usage. Kepler was born in the late 16th century.
  
  I believe that there are aspect configurations in the VMs, but they are likely the Ptolemaic 'Major' ones (Square, Trine, Opposition, Sextile, Conjunct) due to the estimated age of the folios.

  
  It looks like You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has changed to 
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..weebly.com/typus-arithmeticae.html
  
  Regards,
  Dana Scott

• RE: VMs f57v: Subtle patterns

  NosDa > 06-03-2026, 11:44 PM

  (06-03-2026, 03:43 AM)Dana Scott Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (06-03-2026, 02:16 AM)NosDa Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Just a note, the Quincunx (150°) is a 'Minor' aspect that was created by Johannes Kepler. He actually invented lots of new aspects, only a few of which achieved common usage. Kepler was born in the late 16th century.
  
  
  
  I believe that there are aspect configurations in the VMs, but they are likely the Ptolemaic 'Major' ones (Square, Trine, Opposition, Sextile, Conjunct) due to the estimated age of the folios.

  
  
  
  It looks like You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has changed to 
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..weebly.com/typus-arithmeticae.html
  
  
  
  Regards,
  
  Dana Scott

  
  Could you explain what bearing this has on the quincunx in astrological tradition? 
  
  I'm not arguing that all concepts about the number 5 derive from Kepler. Just the 150 degree aspect configuration being drawn upon in the OP.
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