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Jan Gryll z Gryllowa

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• Jan Gryll z Gryllowa

  aStobbart > 07-07-2020, 03:08 AM

  In "Historie literatury české: dodavky a doplňky, Volume 1" by Josefa Jungmanna, which is availabe on google books, there is a mention of a Jan Gryll who was sent to Rudolf II in 1577. Among other people, this book also containts info on de Tepenec.

  Quote:Gryll, z Gryllowa, Jan. - Narozen w Rakowníku 1531; radní městský tamže; wyslán r. 1577 k Rudolfowi II. o potwrzení privilegií města, powýšen od císaře do stawu zemanského. Muž práwa milowný, nábožný. Umřel 1600.

  I have zero knowledge of czech so I am relying on google translate (how shameful), but "wyslán r. 1577 k Rudolfowi II." translates as "he was sent to Rudolf in 1577"

  Anyway I made a quick search on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and he appears to be the author of "Sečtení rokův od počátku světa", dated 1588.

  This book is digitalized, and there is some gothic writing on the cover. Not surte if the practice of writing on the cover like this was common, but it took my attention:

  

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  If Gryll was part of Rudolf's court or in close contact, maybe he came to know about the VMS?

• RE: Jan Gryll z Gryllowa

  ReneZ > 07-07-2020, 08:43 AM

  The writing on the cover seems to be a case where 'old vellum'  was reused to make the cover, i.e. the writing was there before.
  
  There seem to be two Jan Gryll's, and I guess they are father and son. The one that was in contact with Rudolf seems to have been the father.
  
  His name does not appear in the very long list of people who have been recorded here:
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  Interesting coincidence: the book by Josef Jungmann was one of the sources used by Voynich's staff (Herbert Garland) to find out who could be the mysterious  "Jacobus de Tepenec"  who put his Ex Libris in the Voynich MS (in which Garland was successful). I wonder if he used a translation.

• RE: Jan Gryll z Gryllowa

  Aga Tentakulus > 07-07-2020, 09:32 AM

  I also briefly skimmed some letters.
  Nice that there is a literal representation of the text.
  Mostly it is the handwriting where I have problems. Let's see what else is there to read. I also mean the word applications for comparison.
  
  
  Ich habe auch kurz ein paar Briefe überflogen.
  Schön das es eine buchstabengetreue Darstellung des Textes gibt.
  Meist ist es die Handschrift wo mir Probleme bereitet. Mal sehen was da noch so zu lesen ist. Ich meine auch die Wortanwendungen zum vergleich.

• RE: Jan Gryll z Gryllowa

  aStobbart > 07-07-2020, 01:54 PM

  (07-07-2020, 08:43 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The writing on the cover seems to be a case where 'old vellum'  was reused to make the cover, i.e. the writing was there before.

  
  Yes, the physical description on manuscriptorium also suggests this:
  

  Quote:Vazba pergamenová, na lepenkových deskách nalepen druhotně použitý list s rukopisným textem.

  
  

  (07-07-2020, 08:43 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There seem to be two Jan Gryll's, and I guess they are father and son. The one that was in contact with Rudolf seems to have been the father.
  
  His name does not appear in the very long list of people who have been recorded here:
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  The firt page feature the full name of the author, and I read the second name as "Starssi" (with two long S)
  
  
  
  

  (07-07-2020, 08:43 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Interesting coincidence: the book by Josef Jungmann was one of the sources used by Voynich's staff (Herbert Garland) to find out who could be the mysterious  "Jacobus de Tepenec"  who put his Ex Libris in the Voynich MS (in which Garland was successful). I wonder if he used a translation.

  I found at least another edition of Jungman's historia on google books, in german.
  I made a transcription of Horčický's entry, for anyone interested. The book by Jungman also has a short entry on Marci's friend, Jakub Dobrensky.
  From the entry on Horčický, we know his exact date of death and the fact that he left a large sum of money to the jesuits. This of course is common knowledge at this time.
  

  Quote:Horčický, z Tepenece, Jakub (jinak též Synapius). Učil se u Jesuit w Krumlowé; přijat do semináře jejich w Praze. Pro swéchemické umění zalibil se Rudolfowi II., od něhož do stawu urozeného powýšen (1608) a obohacen byl. Jesuitům, jimž základ štěstí swéhoděkowal, odwděčil se podporowáním žádosti jejich u dwora. Po smrti Rudolfa odstěhowal se na swé nabyté statky, hydlíwaje obyčejně na Mělníce, jenž mu byl we weliké summě zastawen. Umřel r. 1622 25. Září w Praze, kamž se byl w nemoci swé přestěhowal, jmění swé odkázaw Jesuitům.

• RE: Jan Gryll z Gryllowa

  ReneZ > 07-07-2020, 02:10 PM

  The double "s" in Starssi is the old form for the modern š and "starší "  turns out to mean "the elder".

• RE: Jan Gryll z Gryllowa

  Anton > 07-07-2020, 02:41 PM

  Yep, the same as Russian "старший". Means "senior".

• RE: Jan Gryll z Gryllowa

  aStobbart > 07-07-2020, 05:27 PM

  Found a collection of different works, one of these writtings is authored by his son "GRYLLUS z GRYLLOVA, Jan - iun.: Chronographia Verni Mensis Mai" dated 1594
  
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  Anyway, for what I have seen about Gryll SR is that he was indeed a very religious person. That can be concluded from his writings, and the description on Jungman's history "The man is rightly loving, religious."
  
  Maybe not the kind of person who would be interested in medicine/alchemy/astrology/ciphers

• RE: Jan Gryll z Gryllowa

  Anton > 07-07-2020, 05:36 PM

  (07-07-2020, 05:27 PM)aStobbart Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe not the kind of person who would be interested in medicine/alchemy/astrology/ciphers

  
  I don't think this is relevant, a number of persons involved in the VMS history were not just religious, but they were jesuits or strongly connected to jesuits.
  
  Trithemius was an abbot  
  
  In fact, religious doctrines were used to "cover up" aspirations in the fields of magic, alchemy and cryptography, to distinguish "good" from "evil" occupations. Trithemius had quite some problems with this, and not he alone.

• RE: Jan Gryll z Gryllowa

  -JKP- > 07-07-2020, 07:52 PM

  Religious groups often attracted scientists. Religious routines in some sects provided time for studying, contemplation, the practice of medicine and teaching. It was also a way to "dodge the draft" (to avoid going to war). Monks were not always able to avoid wars or invasions, but most of them tried.
  
  Sometimes a child was bequeathed to a religious order as a family's offering to God. That child didn't always want to be there, but he or she didn't have much choice. There was a lot of unmonkly behavior among religious orders and some of it might have come from the children who were there against their will.
  
  
  There is a lewd and explicit set of stories (fiction) in medieval literature, 100 tales, that was popular in the 15th and 16th centuries. It includes a large percentage of stories about clergymen breaking their vows of chastity.
  
  I warned you... it's lewd and explicit...
  

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   One of the stories says there was a monk who had the hots for a woman who was at home spinning and weaving while her husband was away. He can't stop thinking about her and finally comes to her insisting he has hurt his finger and the only way to make it better is if he puts his finger inside her... down there. He coaxes her to lie on the bed and then gets under her skirt and penetrates her with his penis rather than his finger and comes right away. She is upset, but he insists it was just the boil on his finger bursting, she has cured him, and there's nothing to worry about.
  
  Many of the other stories are similar. In fact, the whole series reads like a modern soap opera.
  
  Romances were very popular in the middle ages, but most of them had a moralizing tone and were not so explicit. This series of stories is like the Playboy version of a Romance, designed to titillate and get to the point, and the illuminations that accompanied it were almost as lewd (by medieval standards).
  
  There probably wouldn't be so many stories about clergymen diverging from monkly behavior if there wasn't some truth to it.
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