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The Arma Christi [General discussion]

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• The Arma Christi [General discussion]

• RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion]

  Koen G > 09-08-2019, 10:05 PM

  Thank you, Arca. You arrived at a strange time, but your arrival could not have been more timely. Also, none of us know where this is going
  
  
  Going through some of the MSS you posted, more and more is starting to make sense to me. 
  One, David was right, there is likely more than just the Arma themselves, but also neighbouring concepts/events.
  
  For example, the "eagle" is not an eagle, it's the Holy Spirit. Note how the VM root even has its own halo  (from the Paris MS)
  
     

• RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion]

  Linda > 09-08-2019, 10:20 PM

  Not sure if these have been posted, but this one has quite a lot of info
  
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  And led me to this blog on Man of Sorrows.
  
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  And more...
  
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• RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion]

  Koen G > 09-08-2019, 10:29 PM

  And You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. appears to refer to some of the fabric items involved. For example there's often something like a towel (sudarium?) or piece of cloth over a stick. This is referred to in the roots.
  
     
  (image from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., page 13)
  
  Look at the rest of the plant, and you will see that the leaves refer to a piece of fabric as well. I just don't quite know which is which, in part because I haven't had the chance yet to study the fabrics involved and their varying iconography.
  
  Interestingly, this plant has "r" inscribed on its root.

• RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion]

  davidjackson > 09-08-2019, 11:06 PM

  Iirc a number of these big plants are duplicated later on in the recipe section. Do the a. C. imagery carry on over there?

• RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion]

  Koen G > 09-08-2019, 11:36 PM

  (09-08-2019, 11:06 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Iirc a number of these big plants are duplicated later on in the recipe section. Do the a. C. imagery carry on over there?

  As far as I'm aware none of the plant parts we flagged so far are part of the duplicated set.

• RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion]

  arca_libraria > 10-08-2019, 02:04 AM

  (09-08-2019, 10:20 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Not sure if these have been posted, but this one has quite a lot of info
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  And led me to this blog on Man of Sorrows.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  And more...
  
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  Wow, Linda, those blogposts are an incredible resource, thank you!
  
  One more arma christi roll (Dutch, and after 1492) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion]

  -JKP- > 10-08-2019, 04:08 AM

  Ironically, I have several of the Man of Sorrows manuscripts in my files but i never connected the pole-rope with the VMS. Well, maybe the shape, but not the idea that there might be a direct connection.
  
  ...
  
  Edit [addition]:  I just looked at the images again and many of the earlier ones that have helical twining are from France and Flanders, which is the same region where some of the zodiac illustrative subgroups that are similar to the VMS and which appear to have influenced those in western Germany/Alsace may have originated.

• RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion]

  VViews > 10-08-2019, 11:44 AM

  Potentially relevant:
  
  Arma Christi seem to have been featured regularly on church pew ends. Wooden church pews only became the norm in the 15th C, and they were often embellished with either geomeric, architectural or floral motifs, and sometimes with figurative carvings.
  
  Pew ends featuring Arma Christi seem to have been a regular feature in southern England and particulary Cornwall and Devon.
  This English pew use of the Arma aligns well with the main place of production of the O Vernicle poem rolls, and shows the importance of the theme in the region.
  
  Some of the examples below are 17th and 19th century restorations of the originals. Throughout the centuries, in this region it appears that old benches were replaced with copies of the originals, as the design appears to be exactly the same.
  
  They all were made by a very small group of traveling woodworkers.
  
  St Breward Church, St Breward, Cornwall:
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  St Winnow Church, Altarnun, Cornwall:
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  St Mary's Church, Mortehoe, Devon
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  There are MANY more on this wonderful You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  Additionally, some OT but interesting ones:
  
  Mermaid, St Nonna's church (Voynichesque tail)
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  Sheep with round curls (Also St Nonna):
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• RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion]

  Koen G > 13-08-2019, 07:13 PM

  In some Arma Christi there's something like a hand holding a bunch of hair (?), what would this be? Hair pulled from Jesus?
  
     
  
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  And those who know most VM plants fairly well might also realize which plant I'm thinking of?

• RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion]

  -JKP- > 13-08-2019, 07:25 PM

  It might mean Christ's hair being pulled out as he was mocked but I don't think there's a Biblical passage to that effect.
  
  My second thought was that it might be Mary Magdalene's hair, that was used to wipe his feet, assuming that it is hair and not a rough cloth. It looks more like hair.
  
  Goat hair is mentioned in Revelation but I don't see a connection between that and the Arma Christi.
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