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• The Arma Christi [General discussion]

• RE: The Arma Christi

  -JKP- > 08-08-2019, 06:01 PM

  What makes it more convincing than simple visual similarity is the proximity of the folios.

• RE: The Arma Christi

  Koen G > 08-08-2019, 06:29 PM

  (08-08-2019, 05:43 PM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Koen I just wanted to say I think the research you have been doing on this is really, really interesting.
  If these Arma Christi plant identifications are correct, the implications could be pretty massive..

  
  I wouldn't come out with this unless I was as certain as I could be (never 100% in VM matters, but certain enough).
  I agree that the implications are considerable, I just don't know what they are
  
  JKP: yeah, it's often a folio on both sides. Maybe it was a quire at some point. If this is the case it would help enormously in finding and assigning all folios that underwent AC treatment.
  Maybe we should make a list of the most likely candidates and see how they could cluster? I'd need some forum members' judgement on this since my judgement my be clouded.

• RE: The Arma Christi

  VViews > 08-08-2019, 06:43 PM

  Koen,
  The last image you posted here is particularly relevant IMO, because of the fact that it shows each of the Arma in its own little cell, as opposed to the type where they are all within one frame.
  In your last example (which seems to date from c.1300), each one of the Arma is framed, and it's not a great leap to go from there to one per page.
  I think these "divided" types may be the most promising.
  
  Here are some examples:
  England c. 1360-1375
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  England, late 13thc, Prayer Roll, Huntington Library HM26054:
  
  
  
  In this c. 1330-1350 Germany, ivory booklet from the Victoria and Albert Museum (11-1872), the Arma are also divided over several pages:
  
  

• RE: The Arma Christi

  Davidsch > 08-08-2019, 06:54 PM

  a year ago four years ago 50% here was convinced that the VMS You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  This thread sure smells like symbols.   thumbs up for that.
  
  
  PS. Myself, I know the VMS contains >50% symbols that are religious, simply based on historical evidence.

• RE: The Arma Christi

  VViews > 08-08-2019, 07:14 PM

  Did a bit more digging about that roll.
  
  
  There are about 20 extant exemplars in various libraries of the so-called Arma Christi poem, a middle English ttext written around the end of the 14th C.
  Each Arma has a short related text of a few stanzas... Now this might make interesting TTR comparison for those Voynich folios!
  
  Another digitized exemplar is at Beinecke:
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• RE: The Arma Christi

  -JKP- > 08-08-2019, 07:21 PM

  VViews, that's a good picture of the small folding one because that's probably the kind that was carried as a talisman and would probably be better known by the general populace than illustrations in manuscripts.

• RE: The Arma Christi

  Koen G > 08-08-2019, 07:44 PM

  Great find VViews, that roll is new to me. Did you notice how the spear there is an exceptional match for the plant I posted here You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ?

• RE: The Arma Christi

  bi3mw > 08-08-2019, 08:09 PM

  (08-08-2019, 07:57 PM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.....
  
  Rossell Hope Robbins, "The 'Arma Christi' Rolls", The Modern Language Review 34.3 (July 1939:415-421)
  
  
  
  I can't find it online, but this would probably be worth hunting down.
  
  ....

  
  Unfortunately, only a preview.
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• RE: The Arma Christi

  VViews > 08-08-2019, 08:10 PM

  Oooh and this is also interesting!
  
  In contradiction to the study I just mentioned:
  
  "Scholar Mary Agnes Edsall has recently published evidence that the most narrow arma Christi rolls were likely used for an astonishing purpose: as birth girdles, textual talismans that could be wrapped around a woman's belly to protect her and her baby during labor. Such girdles were made from long strips of parchment sewn together, like The Huntington's manuscript, and they usually included prayers, charms, and spiritual symbols, such as the arma Christi. This would explain not only the curiously long and narrow size and shape of The Huntington's manuscript, but also its obvious portability and well-used physical condition: this manuscript had a practical function. It likely belonged to a medieval midwife or a female family member, perhaps passed down through generations of women in the same family or line of work."
  
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  The Edsall study referenced is available here:
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• RE: The Arma Christi

  Koen G > 08-08-2019, 08:20 PM

  This is all very promising. The images of the Arma themselves were apparently so often considered to have beneficial powers.
  
  
  I just had to put VViews' latest Lance next to the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. plant:
     
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