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The top left hand loop of the gallows characters is a 4. Who disagrees?

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• The top left hand loop of the gallows characters is a 4. Who disagrees?

• RE: The top left hand loop of the gallows characters is a 4. Who disagrees?

  ReneZ > 15-05-2019, 01:25 PM

  So this whole question, of which I still can't quite grasp the purpose, is related to diplomatic ciphers after all.
  The visual similarity of q  with t and p  and a proposed link with diplomatic ciphers.
  
  Given that the diplomatic ciphers used in Northern Italy were rather well kept secrets, it seems quite unlikely that they could have been a source of inspiration for anyone inventing the Voynich MS script.
  
  Only very few people would have access to them, and those few would not divulge this information, and rather not use them in open public documents.
  
  And yes, I do think that the shapes of q  , t and p   are similar.

• RE: The top left hand loop of the gallows characters is a 4. Who disagrees?

  Mark Knowles > 15-05-2019, 01:39 PM

  ReneZ: The purpose of this post is not specfically related to diplomatic ciphers rather related to general visual appearance. So any script in which the "4" symbol occurs could be relevant.
  
  Yes, it is true that my own personal interest in this relates to my idea that the script is related to diplomatic ciphers. However the subject of this thread is not that narrow. It really relates just to what we can say about how the shape looks visually.
  
  If think your point is an interesting one regarding the dispersal of the symbols used in diplomatic ciphers to the general public. Now, I don't know how true your assertion is and how one might verify it. However if your statement is true it fits very neatly with my general line of thought, in fact for me if true I think it supports my personal thinking.
  
  Yes, I don't think they are just similar, but the same shape for all practical purposes, which I say is of interest to me in so far as it has implications for the influences on the script, whether diplomatic cipher alphabets or something else.

• RE: The top left hand loop of the gallows characters is a 4. Who disagrees?

  -JKP- > 15-05-2019, 07:24 PM

  (15-05-2019, 01:39 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.ReneZ: The purpose of this post is not specfically related to diplomatic ciphers rather related to general visual appearance. So any script in which the "4" symbol occurs could be relevant.
  
  ...

  
  Any script? Or any script up to a certain date?
  
  Do you have a cut-off date? Obviously modern texts are full of 4 symbols.

• RE: The top left hand loop of the gallows characters is a 4. Who disagrees?

  Mark Knowles > 15-05-2019, 08:09 PM

  JKP: Any relevant script. Unless one strongly disputes the dating then modern scripts would seem to be off-limits.

• RE: The top left hand loop of the gallows characters is a 4. Who disagrees?

  -JKP- > 15-05-2019, 08:15 PM

  Now, I'm the one who is confused.
  
  First you say this:
  
  

  (15-05-2019, 08:09 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't require any samples, I have and can find plenty of my own.

  
  
  And then you say this:
  
  

  (15-05-2019, 08:09 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  JKP: Any relevant script. Unless one strongly disputes the dating then modern scripts would seem to be off-limits.
  

  
  
  
  Which one is it? Do you not want samples of relevant scripts or do you want samples of relevant scripts?
  
  It's pretty difficult to decide whether a shape is similar or not without samples.

• RE: The top left hand loop of the gallows characters is a 4. Who disagrees?

  Mark Knowles > 15-05-2019, 09:04 PM

  JKP: I don't need any samples. I was commenting on the general point of the thread.

• RE: The top left hand loop of the gallows characters is a 4. Who disagrees?

  Mark Knowles > 15-05-2019, 09:30 PM

  JKP: I don't think I need samples to determine if a triangle is a triangle.

• RE: The top left hand loop of the gallows characters is a 4. Who disagrees?

  -JKP- > 15-05-2019, 09:37 PM

  Mark, I am even more confused now, and others have said they are confused.
  
  So I'm trying to read through your title and posts again. Are you saying that all you want is opinions on whether we think the shape of EVA-q is a "4"?
  
  You don't want any examples to show whether the person giving the opinion has ever looked at medieval manuscripts or knows what medieval 4 looks like? You just want their opinion?

• RE: The top left hand loop of the gallows characters is a 4. Who disagrees?

  Mark Knowles > 15-05-2019, 10:16 PM

  JKP: The subject I am addressing is whether the left side of the gallows characters such as the "t" character is a "4" shape i.e. a triangle with extended sides. I am sure it is, but not everyone agrees, it seems, though you may agree.

• RE: The top left hand loop of the gallows characters is a 4. Who disagrees?

  -JKP- > 15-05-2019, 10:28 PM

  Why don't you post a poll?
  
  You can ask the question and give a range of answers, depending on what you are looking for. Since you don't want samples or any info about the person's palaeographical background, a poll might be an easier way to get your answer.
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