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No text, but a visual code

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• No text, but a visual code

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  ReneZ > 22-05-2024, 05:33 AM

  (22-05-2024, 04:57 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I expressed my opinion in the questions and answers..

  
  Ah, so this was part of the Q and A session.
  I understood that you meant to say that you had submitted a paper which was ignored.
  Then I am sorry that I misundertood.
  
  Well, hopefully you get a chance to present your results.
  
  In the last few decades there have been so many statements made by people that they have solved the MS, that nobody is getting excited by a simple statement anymore. This is simply a case of "cry wolf" ten times over.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  BessAgritianin > 22-05-2024, 05:38 AM

  no comment

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 22-05-2024, 07:28 AM

  Bess, please, stop using this thread

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  BessAgritianin > 22-05-2024, 06:36 PM

  (22-05-2024, 07:28 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Bess, please, stop using this thread

  Go to Margenalia f116 and read !"

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  HermesRevived > 22-05-2024, 07:48 PM

  An important question, Antonio, is the place of the planets in the Voynich astrology. We see the Sun and Moon, and the fixed stars, but there is no obvious account of seven planets. If the text is an astrological notation, how might the seven planets be encoded into the glyphs? Do you have any insights into that?

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  Antonio García Jiménez > 23-05-2024, 07:23 PM

  Hermes, I do not believe that the planets are represented in Voynich. They are not in the imagery nor in the script. This is consistent with the fact that the VM shares the same astrological philosophy as Alfonso's lapidary, in which the planets play no role. Except the sun and the moon, considered planets in the Middle Ages.
  
    The astral influence, both in Voynich and in Alfonso's lapidary, is above all that exerted by the fixed stars. In the VM on the herbs, in the lapidary on the stones.
  
  I believe that the script is a notation in which the sun and moon serve to help locate the zodiacal stars in the ecliptic.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  R. Sale > 23-05-2024, 08:14 PM

  And there is the Earth at the center of the VMs cosmos. But in the VMs cosmos, as its structure compares to the cosmic diagram of BNF Fr. 565, there are no planets, not even planetary spheres, just stars. Where are the planetary personalities? How does the VMs identify the astrological actors?
  
  The typical cosmic diagram would have some sort of planetary indications, but the VMs is an uncommon example [in the 1400-1450 era] that omits them. [See also Harley 334] The VMs cosmos does not have an astronomical or astrological focus. It might even be called a cosmos that has had that part of its "scientific" focus removed.
  
  Both of the historical texts have good provenance. Both are between 1400-1450. Both are from Paris.

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  HermesRevived > 23-05-2024, 09:51 PM

  (23-05-2024, 07:23 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hermes, I do not believe that the planets are represented in Voynich. They are not in the imagery nor in the script. This is consistent with the fact that the VM shares the same astrological philosophy as Alfonso's lapidary, in which the planets play no role. Except the sun and the moon, considered planets in the Middle Ages.
  
    The astral influence, both in Voynich and in Alfonso's lapidary, is above all that exerted by the fixed stars. In the VM on the herbs, in the lapidary on the stones.
  
  I believe that the script is a notation in which the sun and moon serve to help locate the zodiacal stars in the ecliptic.

  
  Lacking planets, the only variable becomes the Moon. The fixed stars are... well, fixed. They follow the same cycles every year. As does the Sun. What changes? If there are no 'wandering stars' (planets), only the Moon changes, in short or long cycles. And the Soli-lunar nodes. Weather, of course, changes (by definition.) If the notation concerns the fixed stars, what variables is the notation tracking? 
  
  By my account, the solar cycle would just render a text that goes: [qokeedy.qokeedy.qokeedy.qokeedy...] What causes it to break up into words like [okeedy.kedy.qok.okedy.okeedy...]?
  
  I can see reflections in the Hartley ms. but I am far more convinced of the connections with the Lapidary of Alfonso and the especially the Brescia Handy Tables of Ptolemy, (plus Ptolemy's Phases of the Fixed Stars.) The Brescia Canones convinces me the author was in Northern Italy (and probably knows the Lapidary secondhand through Catalan teachers in Italian universities.)

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  HermesRevived > 23-05-2024, 10:03 PM

  (23-05-2024, 07:23 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. a notation in which the sun and moon serve to help locate the zodiacal stars in the ecliptic.

  
  That is worth thinking about Antonio, thanks. A proposal for how the notation works in practice. 
  
  It seems to be something like that. It is an awkward way to locate zodiacal stars, or to pinpoint degrees of the ecliptic, but it seems to work like that. You take one cycle (solar) and the other (lunar) and run them against each other, or on top of each other, and they meet at particular degrees of the zodiac, each of which is identified with a star. So you arrive at the star sort of by a process of elimination, indirectly. You divide the ecliptic up in various ways until only one degree shares all the divisions. (It reminds me of a way of locating prime numbers.)

• RE: No text, but a visual code

  HermesRevived > 23-05-2024, 10:21 PM

  (23-05-2024, 10:03 PM)HermesRevived Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (23-05-2024, 07:23 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. a notation in which the sun and moon serve to help locate the zodiacal stars in the ecliptic.

  
  That is worth thinking about Antonio, thanks. A proposal for how the notation works in practice. 
  
  It seems to be something like that. It is an awkward way to locate zodiacal stars, or to pinpoint degrees of the ecliptic, but it seems to work like that. You take one cycle (solar) and the other (lunar) and run them against each other, or on top of each other, and they meet at particular degrees of the zodiac, each of which is identified with a star. So you arrive at the star sort of by a process of elimination, indirectly. You divide the ecliptic up in various ways until only one degree shares all the divisions. (It reminds me of a way of locating prime numbers.)

  
  On further reflection, Antonio, your formula: "a notation in which the sun and moon serve to help locate the zodiacal stars in the ecliptic" might describe ARABIAN PARTS in astrology. But these are triangulations using three terms. 
  
  For example, the Part of Fortune, Pars Fortuna, takes the distance between Sun and Moon and adds it to the Ascendant (eastern horizon) to locate a synthetic point deemed to be of great importance in the Arabic astrological system. But the method has its origins with Ptolemy. There are many Arabian Parts, but those involving Sun and Moon would be the relevant ones here. They work in the way you describe: you use the Sun and Moon to pinpoint a degree of the zodiac (and by extension a fixed star.)
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