Ahmet Ardıç > 28-07-2020, 02:14 PM
(28-02-2018, 10:18 PM)lelle Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Earlier today I could read the article (right now I get an error) . It stated that a one-page translation had been accomplished and that it would take two years to translate the rest.
No details, but it (the VM) seemed to be Turkish.
Even though I think this attempt won't hold water, it will be interesting to see some details.
Ahmet Ardıç > 28-07-2020, 02:50 PM
(19-04-2020, 05:44 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Not many Turkish words with "m" ?
My private Turkish interpreter just told me there are just as many as with other letters.
Ahmet Ardıç > 28-07-2020, 03:25 PM
(23-03-2020, 02:34 AM)RenegadeHealer Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(22-03-2020, 08:55 PM)joben Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Seriously, why are they physically travelling to a location to get a hold of an "expert", as if they were in a fantasy movie? I don't consider this scientific at all.
It’s possible Ahmet Ardic was conducting fieldwork in Azerbaijan, related to the VMS, as part of his work. If the VMS really was written in a medieval Turkic language, and Mr Ardic was able to translate some of it, it’s not all that far-fetched that what he translated led him to people, places, and/or artifacts in modern-day Azerbaijan. It’s exciting to imagine that when the grand reveal happens, we’ll get not only a transition of the text, but also a connection to a specific place and group of people. I want to believe.
It’s also very plausible that the Ardics have friends, family, and professional connections in the Caucasus region, and weren’t traveling there only to show their work to a local scholar in an Indiana Jones flavored publicity stunt. If I was in the middle of a serious research project, and I was in touch with an academic interested in my work who lived in a place I was traveling to anyway, I’d certainly rather meet and share my work in person if convenient for both of us.
What raises my eyebrow about this update, is that despite going on for paragraphs, Prof Celilov’s letter adds no new information that the Ardics and their spokespeople haven’t already presented. There are no new examples, and the claims are all vague in exactly the same way as the corresponding claims in the Ardics’ announcements thus far. The words of Ardic and Celilov read like the works of two different journalists who used the exact same primary sources. That’s very suspicious to me. The most charitable interpretation of this I can think of, is that Ardic told and showed Celilov no more like he has shown his YouTube audience, and/or heavily censored Celilov’s letter so as not to reveal anything new. It just doesn’t make sense for a researcher who’s truly on the verge of a big discovery, and just needs a bit of expert verification to establish his credibility, to do either of these things. It does make sense, however, for a crank who’s bluffing to do something like this, to stall for time to placate an increasingly skeptical fan base, whether to execute some sort of endgame, or just prolong their five minutes in the limelight as long as possible. I’m getting whiffs of fraudulent inventor John Ernst Worrell Keely, or the Duke and the Dauphin, traveling con artists in Mark Twain’s novel “The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn”, and their Royal Nonesuch.
I’m fascinated to see how this theory plays out, after such an unusually big and lengthy buildup. The Ardics stand to either gain or lose an incredible amount of face.
-JKP- > 28-07-2020, 09:18 PM
(28-07-2020, 02:50 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
The word structure has to contain a root, but the root may be also comprised of other roots and different combinations of suffixes, prefixes and other roots which will cause each variation to produce a new word. ...
Ahmet Ardıç > 29-07-2020, 04:40 PM
(28-07-2020, 09:18 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(28-07-2020, 02:50 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
The word structure has to contain a root, but the root may be also comprised of other roots and different combinations of suffixes, prefixes and other roots which will cause each variation to produce a new word. ...
To help us understand this, could you give an example of two or three of the more common roots? I don't mean in the VMS, I mean ones that are common in Old Turkish. Thank you.
Ahmet Ardıç > 29-07-2020, 05:03 PM
(19-04-2020, 11:00 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I can imagine that in the Ottoman there are also the dialects, and some with the Persian and Arabic is similar.
Mentally I find myself when I think about the VM in the year 1400 in the Ottoman Empire. Writing is in Arabic style, from right to left. Before the Arabic culture the East Roman Empire was present and not the Arabic one. Here we already have a written, linguistic problem.
Why should someone suddenly write from left to right, and in Arabic, when the previous one was written in left to right in ancient Greek ?
( Why left to right in Arabic, Ottoman ? ) Because it was a traveller ?
Apart from that, there is not a single reference in the VM to Ottoman culture. Even in the style of drawing there is nothing that could point to it.
It can't be a normal writing, the Arabs and Ottomans have written no less than the Europeans. So the alphabet and the language should be known. With an encoding the same rules apply as with any other language, apart from the fact that he does it from left to right.
An encryption system assumes that the person or persons can read it again after 1-2 years.
I took another look at the works. My result, nice but wrong.
I wrote something like this over a year ago. But nothing has changed.
By the way, it was no joke with the personal translator. My wife studied art and music at Taxim University (Istanbul) and my daughter went to school there for 5 years. But now they are back.
-JKP- > 29-07-2020, 08:13 PM
Ahmet Ardıç > 29-07-2020, 11:23 PM
(29-07-2020, 08:13 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am wondering why a 15th-century manuscript would be written in Old Turkish. Would it not be more likely to be written in Anatolian Turkish?
Aga Tentakulus > 30-07-2020, 08:39 AM
MarcoP > 30-07-2020, 01:46 PM
Quote:From here we understand that the author's message is for pregnant women.
Quote:The overwhelming feeling is that Hannig, having extracted Hebrew letters for a Voynich word, then scoured Hebrew dictionaries for any word, archaic and rare as it may be, for anything that will match or semi-match.
Quote:I am very confident in saying that "in the future, no linguist will be able to prove that VMS writing is not Turkish if her/his professional knowledge of Turkish language is not weak" for sure.Things don't work that way. If you claim that the VMS is written in Turkish, the burden of proof is on you. Linguists are totally free to ignore your claims. On the contrary, you should provide solid evidence in support of your ideas. The translation you propose appears to be comparable with other Voynich translations written in different languages. Of course it is impossible to prove that the VMS is not Turkish (or Latin, or Hebrew etc). This does not show that your hypothesis is better than others, it only shows the current state of Voynich research.