-JKP- > 27-09-2018, 12:39 PM
(27-09-2018, 12:20 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.From the very beginning my approach to the marginalia was to be optimistic and assume that it provided us with information useful for decoding the VMS.
Thus, I never gave serious consideration to pox leber as German words meaning goat's liver. For one thing, I could not connect those words with anything that would help decode the VMS, and, on the other hand, those words are ridiculous for a manuscript that concerns itself far more with botany than biology.
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-JKP- > 27-09-2018, 12:45 PM
(27-09-2018, 12:20 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Liber, a Latin word meaning book as a noun or free as an adjective certainly makes a lot more sense than your liver. If that dot were not there, you'd be OK with leber. But, sorry, that dot is there and you ignore it at your own peril.
Quote:Regarding your comment on "pf", know that the Free Dictionary has found 2,465 English words containing "pf", so perhaps it could be helpful to broaden your outlook though I concur it's likely German.
Morten St. George > 27-09-2018, 07:35 PM
(27-09-2018, 12:45 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[quote="Morten St. George" pid='22538' dateline='1538047213']
There is absolutely no way the letter between l and b in leber/leben/lebe (or following the "b") is an "i". No way. No one wrote "i" as a cee shape. I've looked at THOUSANDS of manuscripts and I've never seen an "i" even vaguely close to the "e" in leber. How many medieval manuscripts have you read? I read them in half a dozen different languages.
-JKP- > 28-09-2018, 01:11 AM
Quote:Morten St George: After interpreting pox leber as por liber, I go on to establish a rational connection between por liber and all of the following marginalia words: oladabas, portas, abia, maria, ubren, mich, and o, not to mention two sequences of Roman numerals.
Are you able to connect any of those words with goat’s liver?
Morten St. George > 28-09-2018, 01:15 AM
(27-09-2018, 12:45 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I really don't have a translation for the last word on the first line. It's too messy to be sure of anything.
-JKP- > 28-09-2018, 01:25 AM
(28-09-2018, 01:15 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(27-09-2018, 12:45 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I really don't have a translation for the last word on the first line. It's too messy to be sure of anything.
For my part, I am not afraid to take a guess at umer untpfer.
I view it as alluding to u(nter) mer unt(er) pfer(d).
The mer is French for sea, unter is German for under, and pferd is German for horse. An under-sea horse, that is, a seahorse. In mythology, seahorses pulled the chariot of Neptune and as such would symbolize the carrying of cargo through the sea.
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Morten St. George > 28-09-2018, 05:06 AM
(28-09-2018, 01:25 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(28-09-2018, 01:15 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(27-09-2018, 12:45 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I really don't have a translation for the last word on the first line. It's too messy to be sure of anything.
For my part, I am not afraid to take a guess at umer untpfer.
I view it as alluding to u(nter) mer unt(er) pfer(d).
The mer is French for sea, unter is German for under, and pferd is German for horse. An under-sea horse, that is, a seahorse. In mythology, seahorses pulled the chariot of Neptune and as such would symbolize the carrying of cargo through the sea.
...
Well, you have a good imagination, Morten, but adding in letters to "make" it say something is not research. It's storytelling.
-JKP- > 28-09-2018, 05:52 AM
Quote:Well, I've seen u. as an abbreviation for under and unt. as an abbreviation for unter, ...
Morten St. George > 28-09-2018, 05:26 PM
(28-09-2018, 05:52 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:Well, I've seen u. as an abbreviation for under and unt. as an abbreviation for unter, ...
They did not abbreviate those words without apostrophes/macrons. They did not use a period at the end of a word to abbreviate (in fact, in many manuscripts, periods were absent altogether even if other symbols were common). There was always a tail, or a line over them, or a curved cap, or an apostrophe that looks like a modern apostrophe (these symbols/shapes are found in the VMS main text).
They were quite fond of apostrophe symbols in the middle ages. They had half a dozen different kinds. Not only are there apostrophe-shaped glyphs in the VMS main text, but the labels under the zodiac symbols are full of apostrophes. Why would the marginalia writer of the last page leave them out, when they they show up in many other parts of the manuscript, and when there is a word with a macron in the same marginalia handwriting on the top of folio 17r?
You're proposing a system of abbreviation that not only is not indicated on this page, but which was foreign to medieval scribes.
-JKP- > 28-09-2018, 05:32 PM