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Morten St George Theory
- Morten St George Theory
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RE: Morten St George Theory
davidjackson > 25-09-2018, 07:18 PM
Hmm, very interesting. I note that there you argue prophecy V(35) is actually about You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Again, the misunderstanding between saline and salty (two different words with different meanings - you use salina when you mean salada).
Yet above you argue it's the Spanish armada. So which is it?
You also refer to Nostradamus as an extraterrestrial, which I'm not sure is your actual intent or simply a mistranslation. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
Morten St. George > 25-09-2018, 07:26 PM
(25-09-2018, 04:19 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[quote="Morten St. George" pid='22476' dateline='1537829562']
It was extremely common for those who owned a manuscript after it was written to add notes, especially at the end. I'm HOPING there's a connection (I think the 17v marginalia is in the same hand, so I have my fingers crossed that the marginalia writer was contemporary with the VMS) but it's definitely not proven yet that the marginalia writer knew what was in the text.
Hi JKP,
You're the guy I most wanted to hear from because, as I recall, you're an expert in medieval handwriting.
How do you interpret the fourth, fifth and sixth words at the top of f17r? Could the fourth word be "how"? Does the sixth word remind you of your "nim" from f116v?
I know that you have dated the marginalia handwriting to the 15th century but be aware, by my theory, the marginalia was written by one of the VMS decoders around the year 1597. Do you agree that it is theoretically possible for someone in the late 16th century to be familiar with 15th century script and to adopt it for his own purposes? -
RE: Morten St George Theory
Morten St. George > 25-09-2018, 10:27 PM
(25-09-2018, 07:32 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Morten, one thing is to find a dictionary entry that matches what you need. Another is to build a grammatical sentence. Your Spanish sentences pile up one grammatical impossibility afted the other. No one who knows any Spanish would write anything like that.
(Also, "through the fog" and "under a drizzle" don't quite have the same ring to them
)
Have you ever seen a published Spanish translation of the Nostradamus prophecies? I have, and what they give us isn't a whole lot different from my translation. Moreover, know that prophetic poetry isn't particularly elegant in any language. This goes back to the days of the Oracles of Delphi who spoke in riddles.
On fog vs drizzle, it seems that Google Translate is in full agreement with my drizzle.
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RE: Morten St George Theory
Morten St. George > 26-09-2018, 05:06 PM
(25-09-2018, 07:18 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hmm, very interesting. I note that there you argue prophecy V(35) is actually about You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Again, the misunderstanding between saline and salty (two different words with different meanings - you use salina when you mean salada).
Yet above you argue it's the Spanish armada. So which is it?
You also refer to Nostradamus as an extraterrestrial, which I'm not sure is your actual intent or simply a mistranslation.
Since the word "salty" for you and presumably for others does not refer to something containing salt but rather to something unpalatable, I have altered my online translation as follows:
'By free city of the great sea Saline,
...
The appearance of the word "sel," salt, in the preceding verse (last line of stanza V-34) was taken as a signal to translate "Seline" as Saline (containing salt).'
The bulk of my Spanish website was written more than thirty years ago. For the latest theory on authorship of the VMS prophecies, see my essay "A Brief History of Solomon's Prophecies". Neither I nor, as far as I know, anyone else has ever claimed that King Solomon was an extraterrestrial.
Do you have anything useful to say about my theories for decoding the VMS? -
RE: Morten St George Theory
davidjackson > 26-09-2018, 06:57 PM
Quote: Do you have anything useful to say about my theories for decoding the VMS?
If your system is based upon transliterating the marginalia into Spanish, why are you changing the English version to make it more palatable?
Quote: The appearance of the word "sel," salt, in the preceding verse (last line of stanza V-34) was taken as a signal to translate "Seline" as Saline (containing salt).'
You haven't addressed any of my comments regarding the ungrammatical (and erroneous) use of Spanish which we went through earlier. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
Morten St. George > 27-09-2018, 02:40 AM
(26-09-2018, 06:57 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Quote: Do you have anything useful to say about my theories for decoding the VMS?
If your system is based upon transliterating the marginalia into Spanish, why are you changing the English version to make it more palatable?
Quote: The appearance of the word "sel," salt, in the preceding verse (last line of stanza V-34) was taken as a signal to translate "Seline" as Saline (containing salt).'
You haven't addressed any of my comments regarding the ungrammatical (and erroneous) use of Spanish which we went through earlier.
Whatever Spanish you see in my English-language essay is a literal, word for word translation of the original French (visible only in a graphic so perhaps that is what is confusing you) using, wherever possible, Spanish words found in the marginalia otherwise words of the same Latin etymology. The objective was to come as close as possible to the VMS Spanish. Even if I got it only half right in that Rosetta Stone, it could still prove useful to contemporary decoders.
Consequently, I am not responsible for whatever you think is "ungrammatical" as I did not write the original French which often does not itself follow normal French syntax.
Note that I did not make any changes to my Spanish translation, only to the English translation to deal with complaints presented by you and Paris. Back in those days Selin, or Selim, the Turks, was a major issue, still a threat to Western Europe, and as such it was referred to in many stanzas. In brief, there was very little chance that any printer would allow "Saline" (a silly word in that context and especially so with a capital S) to stand without automatically correcting it Seline. The authors got around this problem by inserting "sel" into the preceding line and a "Salique" nearby.
Spanish is the underlying language of most of the marginalia and for this reason it must be assumed that the underlying VMS text for that prophecy (in the lines indicated by the star tails) is Spanish. I see a plausible German word or two (for example, valsch, meaning false or falsely) but it's mostly Spanish. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
-JKP- > 27-09-2018, 03:21 AM
The first line is mostly German. It's not often one sees the "pf" combination in other languages. I've also looked at other possible languages for the first line, but it appears to be mostly German.
The second line is mostly Romance-language in terms of the combination of sounds (and the likelihood of "portas" near the end).
The third line is mostly Latin.
The fourth line (after the Voynichese) is mostly German. "so nim gaf/gas mich" is very close to readable German and is not at all like Latin or Spanish (or French). There just isn't quite enough of it to know what it is referring to.
The spelling is not unusual. Spelling nimm as nim was common and "gaf" was used for the word "gave" in some areas. If you look closely at the high-res version, you can see a scrape in the parchment that runs from the stem-region of the long-ess up and to the right, so the possibility of "gaf" rather than "gas" is there. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
davidjackson > 27-09-2018, 05:57 AM
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RE: Morten St George Theory
Morten St. George > 27-09-2018, 12:20 PM
(27-09-2018, 03:21 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The first line is mostly German. It's not often one sees the "pf" combination in other languages. I've also looked at other possible languages for the first line, but it appears to be mostly German.
The second line is mostly Romance-language in terms of the combination of sounds (and the likelihood of "portas" near the end).
The third line is mostly Latin.
The fourth line (after the Voynichese) is mostly German. "so nim gaf/gas mich" is very close to readable German and is not at all like Latin or Spanish (or French). There just isn't quite enough of it to know what it is referring to.
The spelling is not unusual. Spelling nimm as nim was common and "gaf" was used for the word "gave" in some areas. If you look closely at the high-res version, you can see a scrape in the parchment that runs from the stem-region of the long-ess up and to the right, so the possibility of "gaf" rather than "gas" is there.
From the very beginning my approach to the marginalia was to be optimistic and assume that it provided us with information useful for decoding the VMS.
Thus, I never gave serious consideration to pox leber as German words meaning goat's liver. For one thing, I could not connect those words with anything that would help decode the VMS, and, on the other hand, those words are ridiculous for a manuscript that concerns itself far more with botany than biology.
Having found that pox leber are genuine German words, you probably did not bother to notice that the x of pox is a much darker ink that could be overwriting another letter. And for sure that dot above the r of leber became completely invisible to you. But I saw that dot and the top of the first e pointing over to it.
Liber, a Latin word meaning book as a noun or free as an adjective certainly makes a lot more sense than your liver. If that dot were not there, you'd be OK with leber. But, sorry, that dot is there and you ignore it at your own peril.
For the third and fourth German words on the first line, I presume that you are going to tell us what they are and what those words mean. I could not immediately identify them nor have I yet spent much time on them.
Regarding your comment on "pf", know that the Free Dictionary has found 2,465 English words containing "pf", so perhaps it could be helpful to broaden your outlook though I concur it's likely German. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
Morten St. George > 27-09-2018, 12:34 PM
(27-09-2018, 05:57 AM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Ok, this is getting silly.
Extensive discussion of the marginalia in question can be found You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and elsewhere in the marginalia sun forum. I'm afraid I find those arguments far more convincing than your Spanish transliteration.
My essay "A Rosetta Stone Theory for Decoding the Voynich Manuscript" does a pretty good job of presenting my Spanish interpretation of the marginalia so, for the moment, I have nothing more to say on the matter.