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Morten St George Theory
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RE: Morten St George Theory
Paris > 30-08-2019, 02:43 PM
Morten,
You should not read the first edition (1555) of centuries by Nostradamus but the second (1557) when he was still alive.
There were so many mistakes in the very first edition (1555) that Nostradamus asked another printer to publish his prophecies.
For instance, in III.57, third line you can read :
1555 : "Franche" = independent, free, in english
1557 : "France" = France, the country.
You can upload a 1557 free version here :
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
As much as I know, Nostradamus called Aries to name Germany, Great-Britain and Turkey.
Concerning III.77, I don't know what to think.
Nostradamus gave us the following date : october 1727 and wrote about a conflict between Persia and Egypt.
In october 3rd 1727, there was a treaty of peace between Persia and the Ottoman empire. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
Morten St. George > 30-08-2019, 04:42 PM
(30-08-2019, 02:43 PM)Paris Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Morten,
You should not read the first edition (1555) of centuries by Nostradamus but the second (1557) when he was still alive.
There were so many mistakes in the very first edition (1555) that Nostradamus asked another printer to publish his prophecies.
For instance, in III.57, third line you can read :
1555 : "Franche" = independent, free, in english
1557 : "France" = France, the country.
Hi Paris,
The "France" looks like a manuscript-reading error for the Paris editions of 1588/9, subsequently adopted by overly-patriotic French printers of the 17th century, including the printer of your cited Rosne edition. There is also a Rosne 1557 edition that says "Franche".
I can assure you that all legitimate publications of the 16th and 17th centuries say "Franche" and you can prove that for yourself as those editions (dozens of them) are available for free PDF download from the website You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
While you are visiting that website, I'd recommend that you read the 200 Nostradamus researches of Jacques Halbronn (a LinkedIn colleague of mine) wherein he provides evidence that Nostradamus was a backdated forgery.
I cited Bonhomme only as a matter of convenience: it was easily legible and did not require me to paste together III-57 which was split across two pages in most editions. My objective was only to display the two Aries prophecies as rationale for the appearance of two Aries zodiac pages in the VMS.
I'll repeat here what I've already indicated: though Nostradamus is my field of expertise, I have no wish to discuss it in this forum other than in context that directly relates to the VMS. Let's stay on topic! -
RE: Morten St George Theory
-JKP- > 30-08-2019, 09:16 PM
(30-08-2019, 12:06 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(30-08-2019, 05:40 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why do you think there are so many zodiac folios missing? The clothed and nude figures don't have to be symmetrical.
There are two pages for the sign of Aries, one clothed and one nude, and there are two pages for the sign of Taurus, one clothed and one nude. What makes you think it shouldn't be the same for all twelve signs of the zodiac?
...
First of all, because it's a very huge assumption.
Second, because the drawings ARE ON THE BACKS of the folios of the other drawings. The pages cannot be missing if the front of one has the first zodiac and the back of the same leaf has the next one.
Third, because there are 15 nymphs on the pages that are split into two versions and there are 30 nymphs on all the others.
I think the reason some are clothed and some are nude is because they represent different things, not because there are a whole bunch of folios missing. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
Morten St. George > 31-08-2019, 06:43 PM
(30-08-2019, 09:16 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Second, because the drawings ARE ON THE BACKS of the folios of the other drawings. The pages cannot be missing if the front of one has the first zodiac and the back of the same leaf has the next one.
You're confusing me here. Surely you are not trying to claim that the page with Taurus clothes is not You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. but some other number? That disagrees with the VIB which shows You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Taurus clothes) as opposite You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Aries clothes). It does not show either of them opposite nudes.
Here's the layout per voynich.nu:
![[Image: img-voynich-nu-layout.jpg]](http://manuscrit-de-voynich.com/img-voynich-nu-layout.jpg)
Yes, but look at this:
![[Image: img-vms-breaks-folds.jpg]](http://manuscrit-de-voynich.com/img-vms-breaks-folds.jpg)
To me, the separation between folio 71 (clothes) and the rest of quire 11 (nudes) looks like an open break glued together at the top and bottom. This contrasts with paper folds (on the right) seen elsewhere in quire 11. Moreover, I see that they colored the bull in the same vermilion color as some of the clothing in order to deceive you into thinking it was all continuous.
Pending a fresh examination of the manuscript by a layout expert, I will continue to postulate that a single folio (clothes front and back) was extracted from the missing European section and inserted into the New World section in order to produce two Aries. The second Taurus results from depiction on the back of the second Aries. It was only Aries that they wanted to duplicate.
The two Aries stanzas are the only VMS prophecies found in the entire third group of one hundred stanzas. In view of the Incantation's open condemnation of astrology, the appearance of two Aries drove them crazy, and I am here referring to medieval authors as well as our decoders.
Another matter that confounded them was "the divine calendar": they were never able to figure out in what year it began. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
-JKP- > 01-09-2019, 02:00 AM
(31-08-2019, 06:43 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
Moreover, I see that they colored the bull in the same vermilion color as some of the clothing in order to deceive you into thinking it was all continuous.
...
You pre-decide everything. You start with the assumption and then force the data to follow your assumption.
You should START with the data and see where it leads. It's very presumptuous to think you can guess so soon why they made the colors similar.
This reminds me of the psychologist who went to the teacher and said he was concerned about the mental health of one of her students because of the colors she chose for all her drawings. The teacher was concerned as well. When the parent asked the girl why she was doing this she said it was because the other crayons were used up. The psychologist and the teacher jumped to conclusions.
Good research means not jumping to conclusions. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
Morten St. George > 01-09-2019, 04:34 AM
(01-09-2019, 02:00 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(31-08-2019, 06:43 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Moreover, I see that they colored the bull in the same vermilion color as some of the clothing in order to deceive you into thinking it was all continuous.
You pre-decide everything. You start with the assumption and then force the data to follow your assumption.
You should START with the data and see where it leads. It's very presumptuous to think you can guess so soon why they made the colors similar.
This reminds me of the psychologist who went to the teacher and said he was concerned about the mental health of one of her students because of the colors she chose for all her drawings. The teacher was concerned as well. When the parent asked the girl why she was doing this she said it was because the other crayons were used up. The psychologist and the teacher jumped to conclusions.
Good research means not jumping to conclusions.
From a while back in this thread I've been fearless to say what I think in full confidence that you would soon set things straight when I go astray.
No, I cannot prove that the coloring of the bull is marginalia. But when I realized that they may have swapped out the nudes for Capricorn and Aquarius in order to bring in clothes for Aries and Taurus, I suspected some action to cover up such treachery.
Besides, did you ever see a real bull of color vermilion?
It's less than an hour to September, and I'm committed to start decoding work in October, which doesn't leave a lot of time to get ready.
I'll post some status updates in the coming days and I look forward to your help especially with regard to parsing Voynichese script. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
-JKP- > 01-09-2019, 05:36 AM
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RE: Morten St George Theory
Morten St. George > 02-09-2019, 07:48 PM
(01-09-2019, 05:36 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(01-09-2019, 04:34 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view...
Besides, did you ever see a real bull of color vermilion?
...
It's not a real bull. It's a drawing.
Yes, but how to you wish to explain that the coloring of the first bull looks quite bullish?
I ran spectral analysis tests on the red clothes and on the red bull at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and it turns out that they are probably close enough to have been made with the same ink.
This leads me to conclude that
a) the dark red coloring for the clothes and for the bull are BOTH marginalia, or
b) it's just a drawing, as you say.
A quick check on some of the dark red from the flowers, swamps, vials and stars did NOT reveal a particularly good match with the bull but often in those places the ink was less densely applied.
When and if Koen gets in touch with Yale to request more protein tests and more radiocarbon tests, maybe he can also request more chemical composition tests, this time doing the dark red ink drawn from several places in the manuscript. With that, we should be able to get an idea as to what extent, if at all, the dark red ink could have been applied throughout the manuscript at the same time. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
-JKP- > 02-09-2019, 10:28 PM
I didn't say "it's just a drawing". You added the "just" which changes the meaning.
I said it is a drawing. It is not a bull. It is a drawing of a bull. They are not the same thing. There are a lot of degrees of freedom in a drawing (together with iconographical traditions).
The color is very similar to some of the plant roots. There's no reason to presume that the color of the bull is marginalia.
You keep calling it ink. But that brick color might be mineral-based pigment or a mixture of mineral-based pigment and gall ink (they frequently mixed their textual ink with other pigments).
The gall ink (the blackish brown and the watered down gall ink which is brownish or even light brown if it is very diluted) are different from pigments that are made from ground stone. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
Morten St. George > 03-09-2019, 12:42 AM
(02-09-2019, 10:28 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I didn't say "it's just a drawing". You added the "just" which changes the meaning.
I said it is a drawing. It is not a bull. It is a drawing of a bull. They are not the same thing. There are a lot of degrees of freedom in a drawing (together with iconographical traditions).
The color is very similar to some of the plant roots. There's no reason to presume that the color of the bull is marginalia.
Actually, I think there is plenty of reason to suspect marginalia, namely, to cover up the removal of two nude pages and their replacement with two clothes pages. Moreover, we have a precedent for color manipulation: in quire 20, we see the use of white-out on star centers followed by the addition of red coloring to some of the stars.
Colors that look the same to the naked eye might not look the same to a computer as I found out testing one of those roots.
(02-09-2019, 10:28 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You keep calling it ink. But that brick color might be mineral-based pigment or a mixture of mineral-based pigment and gall ink (they frequently mixed their textual ink with other pigments).
The gall ink (the blackish brown and the watered down gall ink which is brownish or even light brown if it is very diluted) are different from pigments that are made from ground stone.
I am unhappy speculating on colors and inks (or pigments) or whatever you want to call them when it is possible to make accurate determinations with our modern technology.
It seems Yale thinks the VMS is worth more money to them as an unsolved mystery than as a resolved one, and hence they have no wish to run a few tests for us as compensation for all the free publicity we have given their university over the years. Little do they know what they have in their possession.