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Anton > 25-08-2017, 02:00 PM
To refresh a bit neglected "plant mnemonics" discourse, I'd like to propose to try to identify the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. plant.
In fact, when Helmut and Marco were discussing the "mallier" marginalia in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. thread, Marco mentioned that the luc'z abbreviation could stand for the accusative "lucem" which also means "eyesight", and which corresponds to the "eyes" depicted in the roots of the plant.
This just triggered my memory of the plant, and the only line that I remember of Miechowsky "Conservatio sanitatis": "miraculus in reparatione visus", which is said of Euphrasia. Now, Pritzel lists quite a number of folk names of Euprasia that feature components such as "Augen-" or "Licht-", such as "Augenkraut".
It has been mentioned recently in the forum that Pritzel is not very reliable source, but this is not the case where we should be on guard, because e.g. in Russian Euphrasia is called "Очанка" which derives from (now quite obsolete) "Очи" (= Eyes).
Although some of Euphrasia have violet flowers, neither the leaves nor the flowers of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. look very much like Euphrasia. So my suggestion would be to develop the eyes mnemonics further and to:
- look what other plants are recommended to improve eyesight or cure eye diseases (my №1 suggestion for the roots mnemonics)
- look what oher plant names may refer to eyes (my №2 suggestion for the roots mnemonics)
- discuss what the leaves mnemonics for this plant can be and how this could correlate to the eyes mnemonics of the roots. -
RE: f17r
MarcoP > 25-08-2017, 03:20 PM
(25-08-2017, 02:00 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To refresh a bit neglected "plant mnemonics" discourse, I'd like to propose to try to identify the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. plant.
In fact, when Helmut and Marco were discussing the "mallier" marginalia in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. thread, Marco mentioned that the luc'z abbreviation could stand for the accusative "lucem" which also means "eyesight", and which corresponds to the "eyes" depicted in the roots of the plant.
This just triggered my memory of the plant, and the only line that I remember of Miechowsky "Conservatio sanitatis": "miraculus in reparatione visus", which is said of Euphrasia. Now, Pritzel lists quite a number of folk names of Euprasia that feature components such as "Augen-" or "Licht-", such as "Augenkraut".
It has been mentioned recently in the forum that Pritzel is not very reliable source, but this is not the case where we should be on guard, because e.g. in Russian Euphrasia is called "Очанка" which derives from (now quite obsolete) "Очи" (= Eyes).
Although some of Euphrasia have violet flowers, neither the leaves nor the flowers of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. look very much like Euphrasia. So my suggestion would be to develop the eyes mnemonics further and to:
- look what other plants are recommended to improve eyesight or cure eye diseases (my №1 suggestion for the roots mnemonics)
- look what oher plant names may refer to eyes (my №2 suggestion for the roots mnemonics)
- discuss what the leaves mnemonics for this plant can be and how this could correlate to the eyes mnemonics of the roots.
This time it was Helmut suggesting "lucem"
But I did think along a similar line You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Segre Rutz suggests a connection with Euphrasia for two of the alchemical plants:
76 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ("lumen" is also "light" in Latin)
77 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (I guess this is by assonance)
The text indicates both as cures for eye spots.
Segre Rutz is doubtful about the identification of plant 76, but her idea is clearly confirmed by the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (p.29) which has "Eufragia vel Luminella".
The illustration of Eufrasia in the late copy of Cadamosto's herbal You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. was annotated in German augentrost. -
RE: f17r
Anton > 25-08-2017, 03:38 PM
Following mnemonics the other way around - via leaves, my best guess is that leaves remind blades, through which I came to Cladium Mariscus (German "Schneide", Russian "меч-трава" (= sword-grass)).
It is known to be used in treating wounds, skin diseases and menstrual disfunctions. Flowers look more or less like those in f17r, only in reality they are not purple. -
RE: f17r
Koen G > 25-08-2017, 03:58 PM
I still wouldn't rule out the roots referring to women's genitals. In that case the use related to the menstrual cycle could be relevant, as Ellie suggested in the other thread. The fact that there are two of them could indicate a change of condition.
If they are eyes, I'd really search along the lines of redness, irritation, inflammation... since the red paint is applied with apparent purpose. Swelling too, since the eyelids on one are much thicker than on the other. -
RE: f17r
Anton > 25-08-2017, 04:25 PM
Quote:If they are eyes, I'd really search along the lines of redness, irritation, inflammation... since the red paint is applied with apparent purpose.
Ah, surely, there we are. Centaurea!
What do you think? Both leaves and flowers fit, don't they? -
RE: f17r
Anton > 25-08-2017, 04:49 PM
By the way, in the (unreliable) Pritzel, some folk names for Centaurea cyanus are "Sechel" and "Sichelblume". I'm not sure how sickles looked in 15th century and backwards, but usually a sickle blade is curved. Maybe there still was some "blade"-related folk name not attested in Pritzel, but I do not consider that very probable: I think that "Sichelblume" is not due to the shape of the leaves, but due to the fact that you encounter it when you are mowing. -
RE: f17r
Koen G > 25-08-2017, 07:52 PM
The words scythe and sickle are etymologically related (from the same PIE root). The leaves of the VM plant would make bad sickles, but some of them look like fine scythe blades.
Once again though, a word of warning when relying on folk names. These are regularly less old than you'd think. Ideally every proposal should be checked against early 15th century sources.
Just to give you an idea of how treacherous the terrain is, apparently in English the word sicle was only "applied to curved or crescent-shaped things from mid-15c.".
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
That is to say, in English our image of a sickle wasn't named "sickle" yet when the VM was written. Of course this could be different in other languages. Etymological dictionaries are very handy here.
Bottom line though, the leaves do look like scythe blades. This might be their natural appearance, though in all likelihood in the VM the image has been "exaggerated" for mnemonic purposes. This may indeed point to the name of the plant, which would make sense since plants can be named for the shape of their leaves. It doesn't have to be in German though
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RE: f17r
Anton > 25-08-2017, 08:18 PM
Yes, the care that should be exercised in respect of the folk names we discussed before. I do not think that leaves look like perfect scythes neither, but of course this is worth checking. As for the German language, it just occured that I work with Pritzel for the initial screening, but many names are essentially the same across different languages - due maybe to the same language family (like German and English) or due to borrowing (like with some Russian folk plant names). Anyway, the proposal of Centaurea does not rely upon the name, but upon Centaurea's recognized application for treatment of eye inflammation. -
RE: f17r
Anton > 25-08-2017, 08:46 PM
In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Marco provides the parallel with the "Herba Hochulus Christi" plant. I'm not sure why Segre Rutz identifies it with Lithospermum, because "Oculus Christi" is one of the species of Inula, and I guess this botanical name derives from some tradition?!
The eye in the root is a very good matching pattern, however the flowers are of a different colour (and, moreover, the real Inula flowers are yet of an altogether different colour). -
RE: f17r
Koen G > 25-08-2017, 08:52 PM
Some kind of centaurea would be possible. But from what I see they usually have this "bud" under the flower:
![[Image: 319px-Centaurea_nigra-floro.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Centaurea_nigra-floro.jpg/319px-Centaurea_nigra-floro.jpg)
The VM tends to emphasize these, though not in this plant.