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The frog
- The frog
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RE: The frog
ReneZ > 16-10-2020, 07:58 AM
My guess FWIW is a tongue, and it is supposed to be some kind of lizard.
Not putting any money on it though. -
RE: The frog
DONJCH > 16-10-2020, 03:24 PM
My thought was that this could be a salamander with a worm in its mouth.
Having kept axolotls, I think this would be a typical pose.
I like David's tadpole metamorphosis idea though, somewhat analogous as the axolotl is the larval phase of the tiger salamander.
Not that real life examples are usually much good for the VM . -
RE: The frog
-JKP- > 16-10-2020, 05:51 PM
This is a spotted salamander with the fringed gills:
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The "fire salamander" is common in medieval manuscripts.
Here are some dragon-like salamanders with flames coming out of their mouths:
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![[Image: native.jpg]](http://gallica.bnf.fr/iiif/ark:/12148/btv1b8571073f/f9/640,2892,1037,766/1037,766/0/native.jpg)
BNF Français 1393
Notice how the feet are drawn... like feathery flippers:
![[Image: img670.jpg]](http://bestiary.ca/beastimage/img670.jpg)
Merton College Library MS. 249 -
RE: The frog
-JKP- > 16-10-2020, 06:07 PM
I don't know if the strange blob is a salamander, but I should mention that I think the VMS zodiac figure for Scorpius might be a salamander.
I often call it a "lizardy Scorpius" but that's because it's easier to type than salamandery Scorpius, but the way it's drawn and the curl in the tail, and the propensity for medieval illustrators to include salamanders (they are also included in medicinal herbals) makes me suspect it's a salamandery critter rather than a dragon. -
RE: The frog
DONJCH > 16-10-2020, 07:40 PM
You know, I have thought the same, based on the star held in its mouth.
Possibly a reference to Antares?
It's the only Zodiac critter with a star anyway. -
RE: The frog
DONJCH > 17-10-2020, 04:10 AM
Okay so not unique then but still rather unusual as like 99.9% of stars are held by nymphs. -
RE: The frog
ReneZ > 17-10-2020, 05:49 AM
There is another important difference. In Pisces it is one of the 30 labeled stars. In Scorpio it is an additional unlabelled star.
The strong suggestion for Pisces is that this is really meant to be the start.
For Scorpio, it seems more difficult to guess a good special meaning. -
RE: The frog
DONJCH > 17-10-2020, 02:39 PM
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"a lizard like animal with star like markings" - also used as the emblem of King Francis I of France
R Sale may have some ideas on this!
Also used in drawings to disparage the Popes!
Just to be clear, my idea was just that the star could indicate fire breathing, the star indicating fire analogous to some interpretations of the blue star on f82r