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The frog
- The frog
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RE: The frog
MarcoP > 02-02-2025, 07:29 AM
As I see it, Theodore Petersen got the tail wrong (it points towards the root on the right, and possibly it is connected to it) and added a limb to the right that isn’t there. Probably the phantom limb is due to dark ink being faded at the bottom and the green paint not perfectly filling the dark ink outline. The following image was manually edited based on one of Koen's photographs.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has a plant (Alfrugia?) with a root that is “made like a swallow” (in modo arundinis). The image is just an example of how twisted the images of animals can be, in particular if they are meant to illustrate plant roots, which is not clear for the Voynich "bug". But I wouldn't exclude that the "stinger" can represent a beak.
“Arundo” for “swallow” is not frequent. That meaning of the word is documented in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Also: "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.: A Swallow is called Hirundo, as it were Arundo ab aere" (making it derive from "air"). -
RE: The frog
oshfdk > 02-02-2025, 11:22 AM
(30-01-2025, 04:06 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm still in the US and I don't have Photoshop on this laptop which is really annoying. I did my best with GIMP to make this composition:
Top: old scans, newer scans, Theodore Petersen's sketch.
Bottom: pictures of original MS.
I've tried to process the images I got from you, but, as I suspected, the models I had for TIFFs are basically useless here. These models attempt to capture statistical variation in neighboring pixels, potentially extracting information not visible to the naked eye. This kind of information is completely lost when images are compressed into JPEGs, that's exactly the way JPEGs compress images - by removing variations that are hard to perceive with the naked eye.
Just for the reference, two of your images processed by linear regression specifically trained on some of the ink in these images. As you can see, there is no new detail and quite poor separation of ink from paint/stains.
The only interesting thing is, in all the images the models consistently mark a cross/ankh/dagger like shape immediately to the right of the unknown creature as ink. I'm referring to this shape from your photos:
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RE: The frog
BessAgritianin > 03-02-2025, 05:48 AM
(15-10-2020, 10:08 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I just had a look at three other sources of Voynich MS images, and they seem to be consistent. There is no connection between this 'thing' either up to the plant or down to the root. The most instructive was the Petersen hand transcription, and I attach my camera picture of the relevant page.
Hallo ReneZ,
Petersen suggests the name 'morsus ranae' or German 'Froschbiss', due to the presence of the frog, and whatever that other beast (no plant) is.
Do you have some more photos from Petersons explanations and where one may find them? It seems that there are not many sources with his research notes.
If you have any will you post them?
br: Vessy -
RE: The frog
ReneZ > 03-02-2025, 07:59 AM
I no longer have my old (B/W) photocopy of the Petersen hand transcription.
I once started an initiative to have it digitised (in colour) but this did not work out.
I still think that it would be of interest to have it. -
RE: The frog
Kendiyas > 07-09-2025, 01:06 AM
I was looking at another post and while scrolling through an ms mentioned by Bluetoes101 I found these frogs that hasn’t been mentioned before.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ( Alchemical treatises, recipes and poems, including Arnaldus de Villa Nova, Account of the Philosopher's Stone; Geber, On the Virtue of the Planets and of the Philosopher's Stone; and John Lydgate, The Chorle and the Bird )
2nd Half of 15th c.
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RE: The frog
Barbrey > 25-09-2025, 02:55 PM
(07-09-2025, 01:06 AM)Kendiyas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I was looking at another post and while scrolling through an ms mentioned by Bluetoes101 I found these frogs that hasn’t been mentioned before.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ( Alchemical treatises, recipes and poems, including Arnaldus de Villa Nova, Account of the Philosopher's Stone; Geber, On the Virtue of the Planets and of the Philosopher's Stone; and John Lydgate, The Chorle and the Bird )
2nd Half of 15th c.
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In the last two, the frog is symbolizing prima materia. -
RE: The frog
Jorge_Stolfi > 26-09-2025, 06:39 AM
(25-09-2025, 02:55 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In the last two, the frog is symbolizing prima materia.
I have been fond of chemistry since I was ~13, when I got a toy chemistry set for Christmas. I wish I could have the time, knowledge, and resources to decipher alchemical treatises like that one, to infer what reactions and substances they were referring to. Unfortunately most people who study those manuscripts are historians and paleographers who don't know much of chemistry; and there are few if any competent chemists who can even read those books.
(For instance, my guess about the Emerald Tablet is that it is talking about the element mercury,. It dissolves gold and silver - often referred to as "Sun" and "Moon", it seems -- and can be recovered by distillation at a few hundred degrees, leaving behind any impurities dissolved in it, and decomposing its oxides. The vapor is invisible but it is still mercury that will condense when cooled: "that which is above is from that which is below, and that which is below is from that which is above", etc. Not coincidentally, the fist known Arabic version of the Tablet dates from about the time when Jabir bin Hayyam is reported to have perfected the still or alembic, like the one shown in that image, and used it to discover sulfuric and other acids...)
All the best, --jorge -
RE: The frog
Barbrey > 26-09-2025, 07:58 PM
(26-09-2025, 06:39 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(25-09-2025, 02:55 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In the last two, the frog is symbolizing prima materia.
I have been fond of chemistry since I was ~13, when I got a toy chemistry set for Christmas. I wish I could have the time, knowledge, and resources to decipher alchemical treatises like that one, to infer what reactions and substances they were referring to. Unfortunately most people who study those manuscripts are historians and paleographers who don't know much of chemistry; and there are few if any competent chemists who can even read those books.
(For instance, my guess about the Emerald Tablet is that it is talking about the element mercury,. It dissolves gold and silver - often referred to as "Sun" and "Moon", it seems -- and can be recovered by distillation at a few hundred degrees, leaving behind any impurities dissolved in it, and decomposing its oxides. The vapor is invisible but it is still mercury that will condense when cooled: "that which is above is from that which is below, and that which is below is from that which is above", etc. Not coincidentally, the fist known Arabic version of the Tablet dates from about the time when Jabir bin Hayyam is reported to have perfected the still or alembic, like the one shown in that image, and used it to discover sulfuric and other acids...)
All the best, --jorge
You’re further along than me, Jorge, if you know chemistry well. I doubled in Archeology and Literature! The VMS led me to alchemy a few years back, and I would say I have an intermediate knowledge of the theory and concepts of this particular time period’s alchemy now, after much bemused reading. Alchemy literature is tedious and I would never have dreamed of wading through if it were not for the VMS forcing me to out of my own curiosity!
Some leading experts (and collaborators) in alchemy today are professors Lawrence Principe and William Newman. They make a point of marrying theory to actual practice. I find them very accessible to read and they’ve made some fun videos. Give them a try.
And yes, all about Mercury in my opinion too. But opinions differ, what can you do?