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Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
- Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Koen G > 04-12-2024, 05:17 PM
I keep changing my mind about the order. It's certainly not as self-evident as it seems, and I suspect multiple orderings will always remain possible. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
bi3mw > 04-12-2024, 10:39 PM
Individual “key words” were encoded in alchemical writings from the late Middle Ages. Here it is the word "Aqua".
Libelli et fragmenta librorum varia lat. et germ. de arte alchimiae (de coloribus, de artificiis) - BSB Clm 405, 14th and 15th century, folio 129r, [1]
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But there are also alchemical treatises in which entire pages are largely encrypted. Here is an example:
Cod. Pal. germ. 597, 'Cisioianus' ; collection of alchemical and medical recipes and treatises, East Bavaria, 1426, folio 5v [1]
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[1] Rec, Agnieszka, Ciphers and Secrecy Among the Alchemists: A Preliminary Report, 2014, Societas Magica Newsletter
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By the way, Agnieszka Rec is the new curator of early books and manuscripts at the Beinecke. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
nablator > 10-12-2024, 05:18 PM
(11-12-2020, 10:08 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is conceivable that Michael Maier's "Atalanta Fugiens" respectively one of the emblems and a part of folio f86v3 in the VMS are based on a common template. After all, there are two birds on the folio in the VMS too ( though only one in the nest).
Atalanta Fugiens, Michael Maier, 1618, Emblem / Epigram 7th
Description: A young chick attempts to fly out of its own nest and falls into it again.
A German interpretation of the epigram, published by Georg Heinrich Oehrling (1708), can be read below the original Latin text. The explanation of the scene, also in German, can be found here:
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A discussion of the topic can be found here (Discourse 7th in english):
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(12-12-2020, 12:47 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Some time ago I made a few comparisons to Maier's and Milius's emblems. They really have a surprising resemblance to some of the VMs images. In fact, they are considered not actual because of their late date, therefore I searched for an earlier example. We discussed it at the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. But saying about the 17th century examples, my favourite one is the emblem from The Philosophia reformata of J. D. Mylius. 1622 - the two rocks, the birds in a nest, the Earth between the rocks (T/O map implies the Earth, as well).
![[Image: 78b48e9fa746ef0c3c445b8b90a3724c.jpg]](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/78/b4/8e/78b48e9fa746ef0c3c445b8b90a3724c.jpg)
P. S.But it was of course a few years later after Maier's emblem, the same as the image from the Clavis Artis:
![[Image: 15106459083_0718378671_o.jpg]](https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7521/15106459083_0718378671_o.jpg)
The origin of the 17th century illustrations with two mountains and birds can be found in a much older text translated from a lost Arabic source under various names: Liber dabessi / Liber rebis / Secretum secretorum hermetis / Liber hermetis de blchkmkb (alchimia):
Quote:Dixit Morienes ad Fledium: Serva quod dicam tibi et scribe. Sume ex lapide ubique reperto qui vocatur Rebis et nascitur in duobus montibus ex quibus volucres iuvamentum sinunt. Non accipias ipsum nisi recentem cum sanguine suo. Et eius augmentum est in carne et cute cuius cibus ex sanguine et moratur in aere, et si hic lapis non esset aereus non coniungeretur mercurio, et quia sunt similes et coniunguntur et ignis non separat inter eos.
GPT-3.5-Turbo translation:
Quote:Morienes said to Fledius: Keep in mind what I tell you and write it down. Take from the stone found everywhere, which is called Rebis and is born in two mountains where birds allow its growth. Do not take it unless it is fresh with its blood. Its growth is in the flesh and skin, its nourishment is from blood, and it resides in the air, and if this stone were not airy, it would not join with mercury, because they are similar and unite, and fire does not separate them.
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
bi3mw > 10-12-2024, 06:30 PM
Further research (see bibliography ) fails due to the language barrier. Perhaps someone else can do something with it:
Bibliography
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Liber dabessis seu Liber rebis ; disposition du texte décrite p. 1026-29
[Andrée COLINET, " Le livre d'Hermès intitulé "Liber dabessi" ou "Liber rebis" ", Studi Medievali , 3e série, 36/2 (déc. 1995 [1996]), p. 1011-1052.]
d'ap. c.r. dans Bibliographie annuelle du Moyen Age tardif : auteurs & textes latins, Brepols, 6 (1996), n° 138.
Mss. [ P 197
Sébastien Moureau
MIN AL-KI¯MIYA¯’ AD ALCHIMIAM. THE TRANSMISSION OF ALCHEMY FROM THE ARAB-MUSLIM WORLD TO THE LATIN WEST IN THE MIDDLE AGES
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
nablator > 10-12-2024, 06:46 PM
(10-12-2024, 06:30 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Further research (see bibliography ) fails due to the language barrier. Perhaps someone else can do something with it:
Bibliography
--------------
Liber dabessis seu Liber rebis ; disposition du texte décrite p. 1026-29
[Andrée COLINET, " Le livre d'Hermès intitulé "Liber dabessi" ou "Liber rebis" ", Studi Medievali , 3e série, 36/2 (déc. 1995 [1996]), p. 1011-1052.]
d'ap. c.r. dans Bibliographie annuelle du Moyen Age tardif : auteurs & textes latins, Brepols, 6 (1996), n° 138.
Mss. [ P 197
Yes I've read it, this study has all the sources and an edition of the main versions. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I made a transcription myself of several manuscripts to study the variants: as usual all mss. are a bit different because of the long chain of transmission from the original Latin translation (12th century). -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
R. Sale > 10-12-2024, 11:11 PM
In Post #373, this reference : Liber hermetis de blchkmkb (alchimia)
It is interesting to note the method of 'encryption' used at that time. It is just a partial cypher, moving only the vowels by plus one letter. (a > b and i/j > k) Fairly effective considering the simplicity. What if consonants were also moved by a different value? -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Aga Tentakulus > 11-12-2024, 08:35 AM
Maybe it's not just the birds in the nest where something is said. You could also consider the animal on the other mountain. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
nablator > 11-12-2024, 09:14 AM
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
nablator > 11-12-2024, 04:12 PM
(10-12-2024, 11:11 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In Post #373, this reference : Liber hermetis de blchkmkb (alchimia)
It is interesting to note the method of 'encryption' used at that time. It is just a partial cypher, moving only the vowels by plus one letter. (a > b and i/j > k) Fairly effective considering the simplicity. What if consonants were also moved by a different value?
Well, it's a gimmick, not a full alphabet substitution cipher. With consonant substitution it would be a full alphabet substitution cipher.
I wonder why they did it. It's found in the title of the two manuscripts BL Arundel 164 and BNF Latin 6514 that have the longer version starting with "Quoniam de opere", including the Emerald Table text.
The decorated capitals are more difficult to read that the cipher.
Study in: The Emerald Table - Robert Steele, Dorothea Waley Singer
Full text PDF available at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The other "fun" medieval cipher is when they replaced vowels with small dots.
Very few alchemy texts were even partially ciphered: the full alphabet substitution ciphers presented by bi3mw in post #372 is the exception, not the rule.