bi3mw > 01-04-2017, 11:06 AM
Quote:I've collected quite a few rainbows from alchemical texts, where they have symbolic meaning related to the color sequence of chemical transformations.
MarcoP > 01-04-2017, 12:30 PM
(01-04-2017, 11:06 AM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In my opinion, alchemical symbolism always requires some consideration in relation to the entire manuscript or section. An isolated consideration is of little use here.
bi3mw > 01-04-2017, 03:47 PM
(01-04-2017, 12:30 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view......
In her "Alchemical Traditions" essay in the recent You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Jennifer Rampling discusses alchemy in the specific context of the so-called biological/balneological section. She observes that the predominance of female figures is not compatible with known alchemical cycles, because a central concept of alchemy was the "conjunctio" (conjunction) of male and female and the male element represented gold, the ultimate objective of the alchemical process.
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MarcoP > 01-04-2017, 03:59 PM
(01-04-2017, 03:47 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What should the viewer see, an alchemical process with known symbolism or bathing nymphs?
MarcoP > 01-04-2017, 05:35 PM
Adam McLean Wrote:Dennis Wrote:>Hello, Adam! I know about your extensive knowledge of alchemy. Mary
>D'Imperio, in her survey of VMs studies up to 1978, thought that alchemy
>might be the key to understanding the VMs. However, current
>voynich@xxxxxxxx list members, including myself, see little if any
>alchemical content in the VMs. None of us, however, are experts.
>
>What is your opinion on this. What alchemical imagery can you see in
>the VMs?
Dear Dennis
All I can say is that I have never seen an alchemical manuscript with the same imagery and pictures as are found in the Voynich. The plant drawings in the 'Herbal section' have many forerunners some going back centuries before the Voynich, as has been extensively documented. The drawings in the Astronomical section again seem to have many parallels in known manuscripts.
The main 'alchemical' resonance is supposed to be the 'balneological' section, but here I find no parallels with alchemical manuscripts, except in a very general way. If this was an alchemical work one would expect to find some other alchemical manuscript with similar drawings - but I do not know of one. The drawings after all are not in code!
I have an open mind on the subject, but have yet to see any real parallels. Perhaps one day I will find a manuscript that I recognize has common features with the Voynich - but not so far.
My view is that we can only 'crack' the Voynich when we can put it into some context.
The herbal section is probably the most amenable to this approach as there are many early herbals with similar structures .
It really needs someone to make a study of the semiotics of herbals, and see if any of these features can be recognized as patterns in the Voynich text. Such things as repetitions of phrases, maybe things like "collect the fruits in the month of" or "this plant is for the lungs" . If the Voynich section is a herbal then it should share some of such phrases, and one might be able to find repetitive elements that give us a clue to the way in which Voynichese is structured and written.
I don't think I could find any way at present to use alchemical manuscripts or ideas to throw light on the 'Balneological section .
It may be that it will be someone with a background in semiotics rather than cryptography that will first read the Voynich MS .
I don't think it will be a scholar of alchemy.
Best wishes,
Adam McLean
nickpelling > 01-04-2017, 05:40 PM
(01-04-2017, 12:30 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The example of personification only the Sun and Moon appear as personifications (at least as human faces). The other planets seem not to appear in the VMS.The other five astrological planets are there, but (as per Curse 2006 and John Grove before) obscured by the way Q9 was bound.
bi3mw > 03-04-2017, 07:00 PM
(01-04-2017, 05:40 PM)nickpelling Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But alchemy? The only candidate image I could point to is the pair of implausible giant berries at the end of Q13....
Davidsch > 04-04-2017, 12:56 PM
Quote:Illustrated: coloured drawings of alchemical subjects: N1 [f.2v] and N2 [f.3r]. N1: a naked Queen stands before a tree in fruit with a bird perched just above her head, the sun is to her right, the moon to her left, more birds are to the sides;
bi3mw > 03-09-2017, 07:00 PM
Searcher > 03-09-2017, 10:24 PM
Quote:The "Apparitio Iridis" is shown with the "Extractio Sulfuris". Starting at the illustration on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (bottom left), one can assume that alchemical processes are described in the so-called "balneological section". Of course, there is no usual symbolism in the VMS which points to sulfur, mercury and salt (?), but green would surely be the color of choice.Vatikan, Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Pal. lat. 1066 Fulgentius metaforalis, Libellus de imaginibus deorum (1424)
Does anyone know a comparable, older source as MS 4775 ?