f57v
#63
(17-11-2025, 05:03 PM)JoJo_Jost wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.A few thoughts and questions about 57v 1. I think it is already known that the glyphs on the second circle are exactly opposite each other when viewed from the outside. In my opinion, this only makes sense if these discs are used as rotating discs, as has already been shown here. Or does the division into 4 * 17 characters inevitably lead to them being opposite each other?

If the glyphs were equally spaced along the circle, of course the occurrences each glyph would be 90 degrees apart, so they would be paired at 180 degrees apart.  However they are not.  The angles between occurrences of the o glyph, measured from the center of the circles, are 97, 87, 88, 88.  And they are different from other glyphs.   As a result, as you noted the lines through matching glyphs don't go through the center of the circles ("A" below) or even through a common point.

   

Note how the glyphs after o at ~07:30 are clumped together more than other glyphs.

Quote:What surprises me, however, is that the circles are painted very perfectly.

Most circles in the VMS were drawn with compass, apparently using an ink attachment like the one  linked in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..  There is a pinprick on the vellum at the point marked (A) that is at the exact center of all circles, except the smallest one in the middle (which was drawn freehand, like the dot at its center).

However, even so, the circles are not quite perfect.  They often fail to close, and the two branches run parallel at 1mm or more away from each other.  Maybe the vellum warped while the circles were being draw, or the compass was not as solid as it should be.  Moreover, some parts of some circles were retraced by freehand, and are jittery and not round.

Quote:Were these glyphs drawn without guide lines, without a ruler? After all, it would have been easy to do so.

The VMS scribe barely knew how to use a compass and ruler, but could not even divide a circle into four equal parts.  Just as he did not use scored guide lines to get straight and evenly spaced text lines, he could or would not even try to divide circular diagrams into the required number of equal parts.  In the Zodiac diagrams, for instance, he had to put 10 nymphs in the inner band and 20 in the outer one; but he just started drawing them around each band without caring about space.  Thus he often had to squeeze the last nymphs at the end of each band.  And often that was not enough, so he had to place some "overflow" nymphs on top of the diagram, to complete the required 30.

Quote:On the inner circle, we see most of the glyphs from the second circle again, with 4/5 words on the left side. But it is striking that aiin and ar (possibly or), which are very frequently used “words,” also appear where normal glyphs would normally be. Does that mean they are essentially encrypted letters?

The arrangement  is more complicated than that. It looks as if the text rings 1, 3 and 4 contain explanations or comments (in Voynichese) about some of the glyphs in circle 2 (the 4x17 sequence).

The simplest explanation is that those 17 glyphs, in this context, are symbols for steps in some cycle, like the Western symbols for the signs of the Zodiac.  However, AFAIK no one has found an astronomical or astrological cycle of 17 or 4x17 = 68 steps.  One year is ~52 weeks ... Maybe it is the number of moons per year in the Author's home planet...

All the best, --stolfi
[+] 1 user says Thank You to Jorge_Stolfi for this post
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Messages In This Thread
f57v - by Anton - 30-10-2016, 04:41 PM
RE: f57v - by Sam G - 30-10-2016, 05:59 PM
RE: f57v - by -JKP- - 30-10-2016, 11:00 PM
RE: f57v - by -JKP- - 30-10-2016, 11:16 PM
RE: f57v - by Sam G - 31-10-2016, 07:08 AM
RE: f57v - by zamolxe - 05-03-2020, 09:49 AM
RE: f57v - by Emma May Smith - 19-03-2020, 02:50 PM
RE: f57v - by ThomasCoon - 30-10-2016, 07:16 PM
RE: f57v - by MarcoP - 30-10-2016, 07:20 PM
RE: f57v - by Sam G - 30-10-2016, 07:30 PM
RE: f57v - by Emma May Smith - 30-10-2016, 07:45 PM
RE: f57v - by Anton - 30-10-2016, 08:15 PM
RE: f57v - by Emma May Smith - 30-10-2016, 08:40 PM
RE: f57v - by Anton - 31-10-2016, 12:10 AM
RE: f57v - by Davidsch - 31-10-2016, 12:24 AM
RE: f57v - by Anton - 31-10-2016, 12:35 AM
RE: f57v - by Wladimir D - 31-10-2016, 05:05 AM
RE: f57v - by Witch Mountain - 01-11-2016, 04:52 PM
RE: f57v - by Davidsch - 31-10-2016, 02:56 PM
RE: f57v - by Emma May Smith - 31-10-2016, 06:42 PM
RE: f57v - by Sam G - 01-11-2016, 04:09 PM
RE: f57v - by R. Sale - 01-11-2016, 05:49 PM
RE: f57v - by Vonologia - 29-06-2017, 12:19 AM
RE: f57v - by Vonologia - 18-07-2017, 04:02 PM
RE: f57v - by Vonologia - 09-08-2017, 04:10 AM
RE: f57v - by VViews - 11-08-2017, 07:39 AM
RE: f57v - by Vonologia - 16-08-2017, 04:17 AM
Coins and Bust House of Este 57v - by coded - 16-08-2017, 04:14 AM
RE: f57v - by Vonologia - 03-09-2017, 12:05 AM
RE: f57v - by -JKP- - 03-09-2017, 12:41 AM
RE: f57v - by Vonologia - 03-09-2017, 02:44 AM
RE: f57v - by Aga Tentakulus - 05-03-2020, 10:31 AM
RE: f57v - by nablator - 05-03-2020, 10:48 AM
RE: f57v - by Aga Tentakulus - 05-03-2020, 11:07 AM
RE: f57v - by Scarecrow - 12-05-2020, 08:31 AM
RE: f57v - by -JKP- - 12-05-2020, 08:45 AM
RE: f57v - by Scarecrow - 12-05-2020, 11:21 AM
RE: f57v - by DONJCH - 12-05-2020, 09:56 AM
RE: f57v - by -JKP- - 12-05-2020, 11:53 AM
RE: f57v - by RenegadeHealer - 12-05-2020, 12:13 PM
RE: f57v - by DONJCH - 12-05-2020, 12:40 PM
RE: f57v - by RobGea - 06-04-2021, 04:26 PM
RE: f57v - by pjburkshire - 27-03-2024, 07:20 PM
RE: f57v - by nablator - 27-03-2024, 07:42 PM
RE: f57v - by Koen G - 27-03-2024, 08:12 PM
RE: f57v - by Mark Knowles - 27-03-2024, 08:50 PM
RE: f57v - by pjburkshire - 29-03-2024, 10:15 AM
RE: f57v - by pjburkshire - 27-03-2024, 08:21 PM
RE: f57v - by Jorge_Stolfi - 19-09-2025, 02:16 AM
RE: f57v - by davidjackson - 06-04-2021, 05:01 PM
RE: f57v - by Anton - 06-04-2021, 10:07 PM
RE: f57v - by cvetkakocj@rogers.com - 26-09-2021, 03:45 PM
RE: f57v - by tavie - 26-09-2021, 06:22 PM
RE: f57v - by R. Sale - 27-03-2024, 08:21 PM
RE: f57v - by Mark Knowles - 27-03-2024, 08:56 PM
RE: f57v - by Koen G - 27-03-2024, 10:11 PM
RE: f57v - by ReneZ - 28-03-2024, 12:53 AM
RE: f57v - by Antonio García Jiménez - 31-03-2024, 08:25 PM
RE: f57v - by pjburkshire - 27-04-2024, 02:36 PM
RE: f57v - by Bluetoes101 - 17-07-2024, 10:20 PM
RE: f57v - by JoJo_Jost - 17-11-2025, 05:03 PM
RE: f57v - by Jorge_Stolfi - 18-11-2025, 12:15 AM
RE: f57v - by JoJo_Jost - 18-11-2025, 06:44 AM
RE: f57v - by Jorge_Stolfi - 18-11-2025, 08:50 AM
RE: f57v - by Bluetoes101 - 18-11-2025, 12:39 AM
RE: f57v - by Jorge_Stolfi - 18-11-2025, 06:37 AM
RE: f57v - by Bluetoes101 - 18-11-2025, 11:34 AM
RE: f57v - by Philipp Harland - 21-11-2025, 08:29 AM
RE: f57v - by oshfdk - 21-11-2025, 09:15 AM
RE: f57v - by Jorge_Stolfi - 21-11-2025, 10:05 AM
RE: f57v - by JoJo_Jost - 07-12-2025, 07:24 AM

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