f1v as Cloves

[Linda]

I'm not sure how Physalis became (historically) connected to Plant 1v.

Physalis alkakengi is very distinctive. It has little orange lanterns that form a cage that reveals the fruit inside. The "lantern" tips are pointed and they typically hang rather than standing upright. The leaves are pointed, petioled, distinctly alternate, and certainly not clasping. It has little or nothing in common with 1v except that it bears a round fruit.


Most herbals, even those with bad drawings, are usually able to represent Physalis in a way that it is recognizable.

I figure it was connected through being part of the greater family of Solanaceae.

Perhaps it was because of the fruit size indicated in the diagram is about half the size of a leaf, which is not the case with belladonna nor many of the rest of the species suggested.

I agree with you that it doesn't seem the likely species to be intended by the diagram.

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Strange thing: many years ago i matched cloves not to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. but to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.



At least one other person thought that as well:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Cloves are the aromatic flower buds of a tree in the family Myrtaceae, Syzygium aromaticum.

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Nice german site:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I can see the similarity. But being a tree, this seems too small a plant plus the problem that the flowers are larger than the leaves.

I currently tend toward John TIltman's ID of cross leaved heath for this one.

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Edith Sherwood has 27v as cloves:

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Cloves (Garofoli Indiani) from Cadamosto's herbal (1470 ca).

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In my opinion, the bulbous root of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is not an optimal match to clove's roots.

I think You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a good candidate for cloves. It would be interesting to know if the stem of the plant can be red.

Have you a good representation of clove roots?  I had originally found some that seemed to match You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. which is why I thought it was the better match, had originally only seen whitish stringy roots for belladonna but this was probably off a first year developing plant rather than a third year plant as they seem to be when roots are harvested. However I've since seen some other plants in the Solanaceae family that match well also.

Re f27v's root, I think it is a woody slice that has been transplanted, I don't think it represents a normal looking root for the plant. Again I can see similarities with clove but the leaves don't match.

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I have found two more images of Atropa Belladonna. Both are under the name of "fava inversa".
Left: Alchemical herbal BL MS. Canon. Misc. 408 (1378)
Right: Giovanni Cadamosto Vienna ONB Cod. 5264 Han.  (1470 ca)

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Observing the two images in the previous post, it seems to me that the general shape of the Voynich plant is compatible with that of the Alchemical illustration. The monster root and the large black berry are closer to Cadamosto's herbal (but the shape of the berries in the alchemical belladonna is a better fit). In my opinion, by combining these two illustrations, one gets a reasonable approximation of the Voynich plant. Possibly, the most prominent missing feature are the alternating colors of the leaves.

I've since had a reasonably good look at the entire Solanaceae family and I think there are better matches within it than Atropa belladonna per se, although I've since seen some dried specimens that more resemble the diagram, and even some with dual coloured leaves. If indeed it is supposed to be belladonna, I think it might be Atropa pallidiflora, just from the descriptions, as I can't seem to find a picture nor even a drawing of the plant. There is still the problem of a berry shown larger than life, unless it is another species. The sepals also still bother me, as they are generally more pointy and fall away from the berry as it ripens.