08-08-2016, 06:17 PM
The problem is that mosaics and other architectural art forms are often the only surviving witnesses. We often simply so not know how the ancients illustrated their texts. Many traditions have been lost entirely... so teferring to coins, statues, frescos and mosaics is often our best option.
I agree that Carolingian copying is just one option. I must admit that I find figuring out what happened between the Hellenistic originals and the eventual imagery in MS Beinecke 408 incredibly complicated.
As far as the images in the roundels go. You may be right about copying errors. A similar explanation would be damaged or poor quality exemplars, allowing a tree to be interpreted as the feline's tail. If the face of the goat was damaged, the copyists would have to improvise as well.
Anyway, you demonstrate that looking at earlier art can lead to finds that surpass those found in medeval works. And the results are impressive
So far I was convinced of the type of exemplars used for two of the images. Diane provided a convincing comparison between the 'Virgo' and a Nike-type coin. Secondly, I'm convinced that 'Gemini' is based on Classical imagery as well, as still found in some Carolingian Aratea manuscripts.
The feline and the goats can now be added to the list.
I suspect the 'bulls' as well as the 'Scorpio' are Egyptian in origin, though I'm not convinced yet. My idea about scorpio is a bit too exotic and unconfirmed to mention in a public forum.
But you seem to be on the right track. I hope the big picture will become clear when more convincing exemplars are found.
I agree that Carolingian copying is just one option. I must admit that I find figuring out what happened between the Hellenistic originals and the eventual imagery in MS Beinecke 408 incredibly complicated.
As far as the images in the roundels go. You may be right about copying errors. A similar explanation would be damaged or poor quality exemplars, allowing a tree to be interpreted as the feline's tail. If the face of the goat was damaged, the copyists would have to improvise as well.
Anyway, you demonstrate that looking at earlier art can lead to finds that surpass those found in medeval works. And the results are impressive
So far I was convinced of the type of exemplars used for two of the images. Diane provided a convincing comparison between the 'Virgo' and a Nike-type coin. Secondly, I'm convinced that 'Gemini' is based on Classical imagery as well, as still found in some Carolingian Aratea manuscripts.
The feline and the goats can now be added to the list.
I suspect the 'bulls' as well as the 'Scorpio' are Egyptian in origin, though I'm not convinced yet. My idea about scorpio is a bit too exotic and unconfirmed to mention in a public forum.
But you seem to be on the right track. I hope the big picture will become clear when more convincing exemplars are found.