04-09-2021, 08:28 PM
(03-09-2021, 10:05 PM)Koen G wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think we have to be careful assuming that the person who drew these merlons (no, autocorrect, I don't mean melons) took them from his own surroundings. I can draw a mosque or a Greek temple or an igloo but that doesn't mean I live near any of those structures, nor that I have ever seen one in real life, nor that I have ever even visited the places where they occur.
True but it would be someone who either saw one or a depiction of one.
Quote:That is one of the two questions I've been looking into, though without much success: since the architecture is typical for a certain region, may it also be used by outsiders to refer to that region? I think this is certainly possible, though perhaps not the most likely. I see no reason why the VM should have been produced outside of the region where these merlons may have been known from proximity.
As i believe it does stand for a region it is completely possible that it was made by someone not located there.
Quote:What I wonder most though, is whether these merlons still meant something more than an ornament in the 15th century itself.
The best example i found near the area i believe it to reference turned out to have its merlons added in the 19th century, although the castle was in existence in the region i discussed.
If it was meant to refer to the Italian influence on Jerusalem also, (Nick, I mentioned this other wall too, earlier) then again it need only be someone aware of the Ghibbeline merlon trend. As far as i know there were none actually built that way in that region, so they wouldnt have seen it there, i guess either applied to give context re Emperors and Popes, or because that was all they knew to draw. Many that exist now are later though, even the Kremlin swallowtail walls were late 15th century (but still built by Italians).
The Scaliger Castle of Malcesine has had its merlons since the 14th century, added to a castle that existed since Roman times. I think it is also referenced on f80r, the nymph being poked in the eye, although i believe the Roman ruins are what is being referenced (her broken legs) rather than the merlons. Sirmione i believe is also referenced (by the sulphur spring tube), and also has swallowtail merlons but of different design, and others have different designs again, while still maintaining the general swallowtail motif. So it is hard to say how much Ghibelline design importance was denoted at the time they were built, or thought of in the time of the vms carbon dating, given these differences. Also some cities went back and forth over time as to where their allegiances lay, not like you could change your castle every time that happened, so i am guessing that affected the relevance too.

