Women's dagged sleeves - parallels?

[Koen G]

Thank you VViews, this was what I was expecting (the date range). I entered the results we have so far for the men's sleeves into a spreadsheet and the results are conclusive. You see, if you take only the clear matches (i.e. no overall puffy "hulk" sleeves, no cases about which doubt was expressed, tunic in roughly the same style as Archer), you can compare the three decades 1400-1430 to everything that came before and everything that comes after.

   

The earlier cases are from the Sanitatis MSS. The later cases are mostly outside of manuscript art and several of them borderline doubtful. 

In other words, for the Archer's sleeves we've got 1400-1430 as likely range. If it's earlier, it's trend setting like the highly innovative Tacuinum Sanitatis. If it's later, it would have certainly been considered old fashioned or "retro". (Diebold Lauber does this sometimes, but his models have sometimes even been called "14th century" so he's not exactly a beacon of modern fashion). Given the simple style of the tunic, I'd say that later than 1430 is especially unlikely.

In short, limiting the date range for elbow bags to ca. 1390?/1400-1430 is a reasonable hypothesis. Now the question is: doe the women's dresses allow us to refine this date range? If we look at the various styles of dagging, is there an evolution?