Hello all! I'd started my research in Voynichese 2 years ago and have got some results!
I've chosen the different way to crack this cipher, although it wasn't a cipher...
I've found the five basic elements on the upper of f77r page - there was 5 images of them, blowing out of their fittings and inscription of each. Then I've started to finding and comparing words with the same meaning and sounding in the languages of all over the world.
And what came into result - just see below:
![[Image: X_J5QvzSVZ8.jpg]](https://pp.vk.me/c636122/v636122792/2e0da/X_J5QvzSVZ8.jpg)
Then, a very hard work with a letter-sound combinations and a pile of dictionaries allow me to obtain an approximate sounding of the almost all voynichese symbols:
![[Image: VuvQbZg196Q.jpg]](https://pp.vk.me/c636122/v636122792/2e0c7/VuvQbZg196Q.jpg)
The next thing i've found - the moon-calendar on a page f67r2:
1. 4o*H*oca2 - [ FOTOI[font=sans-serif]ӘR / ФОТОИӘР ] - foto + year. Täz[font=sans-serif]äyil in Turkmenian means 'pure year'' - new year;[/font][/font]
2. 8rco8a2 - [ [font=sans-serif]ĞIO[font=sans-serif]Ƣ[font=sans-serif]ӘR / [/font][/font]ҖӨҒӘР ] - ??;[/font]
3. 9Sax8ax - [ AB[font=sans-serif]ӘŞ[font=sans-serif]Ƣ[font=sans-serif]Ә[font=sans-serif]Ş / [/font][/font][/font][/font]АБӘШҒӘШ ] - the word derived from Turkmen/Uzbek 'beshgesh' that means 'a gift'. There are a variants in another Turkic: peshgesh, peshkesh (Chagatai);
4. 9*H*o8ax - [ ATO[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]Ƣ[/font][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]Ә[/font][/font]Ş / АТОҒӘШ ] - ??;[/font]
5. *H*ox8aiiU - [ TO[font=sans-serif]Ş[font=sans-serif]Ƣ[font=sans-serif]ӘÑD /[/font][/font][/font] ТОШҒӘҢД ] - Probably, from a city named Tashkent (Uzbek's capital). This word in Uzbek means 'a stone city' and sounds like Toshk
änt.
6. o*H*a289 - [ OT[font=sans-serif]ӘRƢA / ОТӘРҒА ] - ??;[/font]
7. rco8axcj - [ JIO[font=sans-serif]Ƣ[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]Ә[/font][/font][/font][/font]Ş* / ХӨҒӘШ* ] - ??;
8. 9*H*rco8x9 - [ ATHIO[font=sans-serif]ƢŞA / АЦӨҒША ] - ??;[/font]
9. or*H*c9S - [ OJTIAB / ОХТИАБ ] - Clear here. But none the calendar have a 9th month - october in the world. Russian "oktiabr' ";
10. 9*H*oH*a2 - [ ATOK[font=sans-serif]ӘR / АТОКӘР ] - ??;[/font]
11. o*H*oxo2 - [ OTO[font=sans-serif]ŞOR / ОТОШОР ] - derived from word o*H*ox - [ OTOŞ / ОТОШ ] - Fire, warm, hot. Atash, otash, atish, atesh, etc in other Turkic;[/font]
12. oH*o8a2 - [ OKO[font=sans-serif]Ƣ[font=sans-serif]ӘR / [/font]ОКОҒӘР ] - probably - ukuger. Google gave me a phrase "yal takibasu ukuger-un siinesiin tiilebesii" with no translation;[/font]
Very interesting. I will study your proposal further.
For the five elements, air, earth, fire, water, and ether, I notice that your illustration gives a range of options for each. Is it possible to provide a list of identifications that you've chosen, and the language that they come from. Also any other words that you feel you have positively identified.
Have you tried to read any two word phrases? Or more than two words in a row?
The short vocabulary of Voynichese i've made:
Sor*H*cc8 - [ BOJTIE[font=sans-serif]Ƣ / БОХТИЕҒ ] - happy; Turkic, Persian - Bahtiyar, Bahtier;[/font]
rc*P*a2 - [ JIZ[font=sans-serif]ӘR / ХИЗӘР ] - one thousand; Turkic, Persian - hazir, hazor, hazar;[/font]
So2ax - [ BOR[font=sans-serif]Ә[font=sans-serif]Ş / [/font]БОРӘШ ] - he moves, he goes; Uyghur - boresh; Urdu - barish; People in Asia - Burish;[/font]
8гс89 - [ [font=sans-serif]ĞI[font=sans-serif]ƢA / [/font]ҖИҒА ] - giving a life (from Turkic grammar), world, Earth; Turkic - Jir, Jer (world); Caucasian - gheg, deda (mother), geg; Albanian - gheg; Russian - zhizn' (life), zhivoy/zhivaya ; Chinese - tsi, Indian - shi(va).[/font]
o*H*c89 - [ OTI[font=sans-serif]ƢA / ОТИҒА ] - giving a fire (from Turkic grammar), Water; old Kazakh - Atyrau (island), Russian - wytirat' , utirat' (wipe), Singhalese - vatura (water);[/font]
o*H*ox - [ OTO[font=sans-serif]Ş / ОТОШ ] - Fire; Turkic - Ot, Hebrew - Aesh; Atash, otash, atish, atesh, etc. in other Turkic;[/font]
oxH*rcS - [ O[font=sans-serif]ŞCHIB / ОШЧИБ ] - Steam; Georgian-Mingrelian - oshch'ivari (steam), Albanian - shqip (clear), Indo-Persian - hewa, hava (air); Gypsian - chib, shib (speaking);[/font]
o*H*o2H* - [ OTORK / ОТОРК ] - Ether, etheric; 'utur' in Turkic (Chagatai-Uyghur) means '[font=arial, sans-serif]fulminant' representing a speed and an electricity both.[/font]
rcox - [ JIO[font=sans-serif]Ş / ХӨШ ] - poison; Arabic - hash; Armenian, Turkic - xashxash.[/font]
P*arc - [ PӘJI / ПӘХИ ] - five; Urdu - pach; Russian - piat'; Indian - panca: pandz, pendz, pindz, penta (Greek!), pinta (English?) in other IE.
9S - [ AB / АБ ] - river; Caucasian, Indo-Iranian - Av, ov, ob, ab - water, river.
P*arc9S - [ PӘJIAB / ПӘХИАБ ] - Punjab;
9H*ax - [ AKӘ[font=sans-serif]Ş / АКӘШ ] - note, memory, knowledge; Indian - akasha, English - cache;[/font]
9*H*aiiU - [ ATӘ[font=sans-serif]ÑD / АТӘҢД ] - understanding, notion?; Portugese - Entendo.[/font]
rсс9 - [ JIIA / ХИИА ] - life; Sounds like 'Haiya'; Aramaic, Syriac, Mandaic; Hayastan - Armenia (!);
rccS9 - [ JIIBA / ХИИБА ] - Animal; [Haiyba]. Aramaic, Syriac, Mandaic, Chechen (!);
xox - [ [font=sans-serif]ŞO[font=sans-serif]Ş / [/font]ШОШ ] - six; Persian - shash, Kilitian - shesh, Russian - shest';[/font]
Sax8ax - [ B[font=sans-serif]ӘŞƢӘŞ / БӘШҒӘШ ] - a gift. There are a variants in another Turkic: peshgesh, peshkesh (Chagatai);[/font]
H*rсS - [ CHIB / ЧИБ ] - air?; Gipsy's - chib, shib; Albanian - shqip; Russian - wskipet' (come to the boil);
*H*ox - [ TO[font=sans-serif]Ş / ТОШ ] - Stone (uzbek); tash - in ahother Turkic;[/font]
H*aiiU - [ KӘ[font=sans-serif]ÑD / КӘҢД ] - city, town, village (Turkic);[/font]
8aiiU - [ [font=sans-serif]ƢӘ[font=sans-serif]ÑD / [/font]ҒӘҢД ] - end, limit; Indian - gindu, genda; Talish - gend - sugar (?);[/font]
SaiiU - [ B[font=sans-serif]Ә[font=sans-serif]ÑD / [/font]БӘҢД ] - belt (Turkic);[/font]
SorсH*co*H* - [ BOJIKIOT / БОХИКӨТ ] - boycott; Russian - boykot; deriving unknown;
8a2 - [ [font=sans-serif]ƢӘR / ҒӘР ] - whore; Uyghur 'ƢӘR'; English - girl;[/font]
8a2aij - [ [font=sans-serif]ƢӘR[font=sans-serif]ӘM / [/font]ҒӘРӘМ ] - harem; Uzbek - haram (harem); Chechen - h'iaram (forbidden, prohibited)[/font]
8ax - [ [font=sans-serif]ƢӘ[font=sans-serif]Ş /[/font] ҒӘШ ] - qualmishness (Uyghur);[/font]
o*H*9 - [ OTA / ОТА ] - Father; Uzbek - ota, Turkish - ata, Russian - otets;
oH*rc89 - [ OCHI[font=sans-serif]ƢA / ОЧИҒА ] - opening, discovering (Uzbek);[/font]
oxP*aiiU - [ O[font=sans-serif]ŞP[font=sans-serif]Ә[font=sans-serif]ÑD / [/font][/font]ОШПӘНД ] - hostile (Kazakh);[/font]
2ox - [ RO[font=sans-serif]Ş / РОШ ] - head, main (Hebrew);[/font]
H*ox9H* - [ KO[font=sans-serif]ŞAK / КОШАК ] - astragalus (a plant and a word from f21r); Chuvash - kushak;[/font]
a2 - [ ӘR / ӘР ] - each, masculine (Turkic);
o*H*ox o*H*9 *H*ox89 - [ OTOŞ OTA TO[font=sans-serif]ŞƢA[/font] ] - the fire is a father of a stone. (f9v) 4th row.
P*arc9S 9H*ax a2 9*H*aiiU r'cox r'co29 r*H*c2cS 9 H*o2 r'cox89 - the beginning of VM (f1r)
PӘJIAB AK[font=sans-serif]Ә[font=sans-serif]Ş [font=sans-serif]ӘR AT[font=sans-serif]Ә[font=sans-serif]ÑD YIO[font=sans-serif]Ş YIORA JTIRIB A KOR YIO[font=sans-serif]Ş[font=sans-serif]ƢA[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]1. Punjab's[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]2. cache[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]3. of each[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]4. knowledge (?)[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]5. poison (?)[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]6. plant (?)[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]7. to destroy, to exterminate[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]8. (like in English 'a')[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]9. blind, deaf[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]10. to the poison (?)[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]A Turkic ending [font=sans-serif]ƢA means dative.[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
I think you need to get a handle on where your vocabulary is coming from. While a Turkic language with borrowings from Persian and Arabic might be reasonable, the sheer range of sources you quote is too vast.
Some of these sources are also impossible for the manuscript. For example, you quote the Russian word 'boycott', but that comes from the English surname Boycott and dates no earlier than 1880.
(21-09-2016, 09:14 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think you need to get a handle on where your vocabulary is coming from. While a Turkic language with borrowings from Persian and Arabic might be reasonable, the sheer range of sources you quote is too vast.
Some of these sources are also impossible for the manuscript. For example, you quote the Russian word 'boycott', but that comes from the English surname Boycott and dates no earlier than 1880.
But from where
comes the English surname Boycott?? I still havent found this...
But I found one more else interesting thing:
In Mingrelian dialect of Georgian is the prefix 'va' that means negate, antithesis.
miork - I love;
vamiork - I don't love;
moko - I want;
vamoko - I don't want;
And the close-same we can see in English and Latin:
man - woman;
male - female;
terra - water(ra) (the friction in the water tends to zero; russian word "trenie" = friction, "teret' " = to rub)
And the same we, maybe, have in Voynichese with '4o' corellating with Deutsch sounding ( vo - [fo] ).
Maybe, Voynichese - is the early try to create an international language e.g. Esperanto? Maybe, it was the language for conversation of the traders of the Silk Way? Maybe it was the language of the Babylon? Or it is even a PIE in it's nature? More questions than answers yet...
And this transcription table may have mistakes, it needs more analysis of the text...
There is a word "rco" - [ JIO / Х
Ө ] in the VM. This word is found in Chechen only (хьо / hio). Meaning - "you".
'Boykot' in Russian means
stoppage, [font=arial, sans-serif]rejection...[/font]
(21-09-2016, 09:27 PM)escape Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (21-09-2016, 09:14 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think you need to get a handle on where your vocabulary is coming from. While a Turkic language with borrowings from Persian and Arabic might be reasonable, the sheer range of sources you quote is too vast.
Some of these sources are also impossible for the manuscript. For example, you quote the Russian word 'boycott', but that comes from the English surname Boycott and dates no earlier than 1880.
But from where comes the English surname Boycott?? I still havent found this...
It's English, from a placename in England.
Quote:[color=#333333]But I found one more else interesting thing:
In Mingrelian dialect of Georgian is the prefix 'va' that means negate, antithesis.
miork - I love;
vamiork - I don't love;
moko - I want;
vamoko - I don't want;
And the close-same we can see in English and Latin:
man - woman;
male - female;
terra - water(ra) (the friction in the water tends to zero; russian word "trenie" = friction, "teret' " = to rub)
None of the three examples you give: wo/man, fe/male, and wa/ter(ra), have the etymological origin you're assigning to them. Indeed, neither male and female, nor water and terra, are related at all.
(21-09-2016, 09:58 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:But I found one more else interesting thing:
In Mingrelian dialect of Georgian is the prefix 'va' that means negate, antithesis.
miork - I love;
vamiork - I don't love;
moko - I want;
vamoko - I don't want;
And the close-same we can see in English and Latin:
man - woman;
male - female;
terra - water(ra) (the friction in the water tends to zero; russian word "trenie" = friction, "teret' " = to rub)
None of the three examples you give: wo/man, fe/male, and wa/ter(ra), have the etymological origin you're assigning to them. Indeed, neither male and female, nor water and terra, are related at all.
I know, but what if it isn't that? We must to accept all possible assumptions to crack Voynichese till the end. This is the main principles of the fuzzy logic analisys that I have applied to VM. We just haven't another way to do it. Trying to translate words, correcting transcription and again, and again, almost as shown in Derek Vogt's videos.
It's going to take me a while to read all of this thread and I can't do it until after I've finished work, but I wanted to mention that I've come back to Turkic languages a few times.
Some languages are a better match to word-length, word-order, and consonant-syllable balance and structure than others and Asian and Turkic are a couple of the language groups on my list that seem to work better than others.
(21-09-2016, 10:47 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's going to take me a while to read all of this thread and I can't do it until after I've finished work, but I wanted to mention that I've come back to Turkic languages a few times.
Some languages are a better match to word-length, word-order, and consonant-syllable balance and structure than others and Asian and Turkic are a couple of the language groups on my list that seem to work better than others.
There are a big amount of words in VM that are translated from different Turkic languages exactly. But there are some amount of words from Chechen, Syriac, Persian, Indian, Georgian, close-Russian, close-English and many other languages...
e.g. word 9H*a2oS - [ AK
ӘROB / АК
ӘРОБ ]. There is an English word 'carob', and Russian 'kerob'. Meaning the same, but ethymology is unknown, as in case with boycott...
I think a Turkic language is perfectly possible, and indeed a good compromise between structure and availability: it's exotic enough compared to Indo-European, but not too exotic to be unknown in Central Europe.
By the 1400s the Golden Horde had introduced numerous populations of Turkic speakers far into Europe. We have indications, such as the Codex Cumanicus, that Turkic linguistics was of interest to at least a few scholars, providing the possibility for a European-produced but Turkic-language book.