31-08-2018, 10:17 AM
Thank you, Koen!
I cannot find the 2016 post in which you first discussed the crossed-arms detail: it was linked You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., but it must have disappeared from the forum in one of the crashes?
I believe you have done something quite amazing: you have guessed the relevance of an apparently random detail and tracked it down for years. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. was "from a 15th C Revised Aratus Latinus, “French or Italian”, BAV Reg lat 1324, fol. 23v".
![[Image: 164961.jpg]](https://stephenbax.net/wp-content/comment-image/164961.jpg)
The figures are naked here and the pose is not as close a match as your last finding, yet the illustration represents the Gemini constellation, so I consider it highly relevant.
In august 2016, Darren Worley added this much later image from the German "Astrologisch-astronomische Sammelhandschrift (Cod. Guelf. 8.7 Aug. 4°; Heinemann-Nr. 2973) 16. Jh." An interesting feature here is that the figures appear inside a circular frame as part of a series of 12 medallions representing the zodiac signs.
![[Image: 165156.jpg]](https://stephenbax.net/wp-content/comment-image/165156.jpg)
The 1482 "Buch Ovidii" you now added to the collection appears to be the German translation by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (1410-1468) of the Latin "De Amore" by the probably French You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (XII Century): a number of directions for researching the origin of the illustration seem possible, and this is not the first time we meet Hartlieb (see for instance You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
It could be that the German engraving derives from a French illustration, but of course this is speculative. At the current state of this research, my impression is that your new finding adds to the elements suggesting a relation between the Voynich manuscript and German-speaking countries.
Some of these are:
I cannot find the 2016 post in which you first discussed the crossed-arms detail: it was linked You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., but it must have disappeared from the forum in one of the crashes?
I believe you have done something quite amazing: you have guessed the relevance of an apparently random detail and tracked it down for years. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. was "from a 15th C Revised Aratus Latinus, “French or Italian”, BAV Reg lat 1324, fol. 23v".
![[Image: 164961.jpg]](https://stephenbax.net/wp-content/comment-image/164961.jpg)
The figures are naked here and the pose is not as close a match as your last finding, yet the illustration represents the Gemini constellation, so I consider it highly relevant.
In august 2016, Darren Worley added this much later image from the German "Astrologisch-astronomische Sammelhandschrift (Cod. Guelf. 8.7 Aug. 4°; Heinemann-Nr. 2973) 16. Jh." An interesting feature here is that the figures appear inside a circular frame as part of a series of 12 medallions representing the zodiac signs.
![[Image: 165156.jpg]](https://stephenbax.net/wp-content/comment-image/165156.jpg)
The 1482 "Buch Ovidii" you now added to the collection appears to be the German translation by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (1410-1468) of the Latin "De Amore" by the probably French You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (XII Century): a number of directions for researching the origin of the illustration seem possible, and this is not the first time we meet Hartlieb (see for instance You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
It could be that the German engraving derives from a French illustration, but of course this is speculative. At the current state of this research, my impression is that your new finding adds to the elements suggesting a relation between the Voynich manuscript and German-speaking countries.
Some of these are:
- The German marginalia accompanied by Voynichese text and Voynich-like illustrations in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and f66r, originally pointed out by Richard Salomon and Erwin Panofsky.
- The Crossbow-Sagittarius originally pointed out as significant by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and later traced to a Central-European tradition by Rene Zandbergen and others.
- The German colour annotations (in particular "rot" in f4r) originally observed by Rene Zandbergen and later confirmed by Alain Touwaide.