Woah woah woah. Has anyone ever done this type of image analysis on the virgo figure? Is this known?
Using the 2004 scan and applying Principal component analysis to the image shows
clearly that the collar, star, and area near the wrists are differently coloured. Maybe the hair too?
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It also works on the later scan:
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And also, if some people do not find that image analysis as trustworthy, it also works by taking the original image, massively increasing the saturation, and then simply adjusting the brightness and contrast:
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Sorry if this is all known, if so please disregard
I don't know that software.. nice one...can you run it across the other signs?
Btw, no comment on the fact the Prague virgo and ours seem to the exact same circumference circles?
Here is the link to the manuscript:
[Breviarium monasterii s. Georgii]
XIII.C.1a; Národní knihovna České republiky; Praha; Česká republika
Folio 4v
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(10-07-2026, 10:54 AM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Using the 2004 scan and applying Principal component analysis to the image shows clearly that the collar, star, and area near the wrists are differently coloured. Maybe the hair too?
I don't know whether the paint on collar and cuffs of this figure were discussed before. But that is a light yellow paint that is used throughout the book, including in the hair or most nymphs and either filling the stars or forming a round blob at their center.
I suspect that it is the only paint that is original, that is, applied by the same Scribe who penned the figure outlines.
That light yellow paint is notable for being almost transparent, whereas the other color paints are opaque (like gouache or tempera) That may be intentional, so that it could be painted over the drawings without obscuring them (which the other paints often do; and this fact is one bit of evidence indicating that these paints are not original.)
That light yellow paint also seems to have been applied with a decent brush; whereas the other paints (even on solid color areas) seem to have been applied with a broad-tipped quill or with a very coarse brush, like a chewed-up stick.
It is possible that the light yellow paint was originally a stronger yellow, but has faded to its present state. The transparency indicates a soluble dye rather than a suspension of powdered solid pigment. The soluble dyes that were available at the time would have been mostly organic (like turmeric or safflower), which would be consistent with the hypothetical fading.
But that light yellow paint could also be the same as the drawing ink, but highly diluted.
In the Starred Parags section, the stars usually have alternating red and light yellow cores. But sometimes there is a hiccup in the alternation, sometimes leaving a star unpainted. My guess is that the stars originally alternated between yellow and unpainted, and the red blobs were applied to the unpainted ones much later, together with the other colored paints.
All the best, --stolfi
I kind of trained my mind to "enhance" that yellow color, since it is indeed very faded. But it's always nice to see enhanced versions, and I think this is a valid approach. (As long as we keep in mind that it remains an altered image).
So yes, she's intended to be wearing a yellow garment under her blue dress. You also see so clearly how the blue is applied in "lines".
For the purposes of knowing what we are looking at, though, does this confirm that we are indeed looking at a seperate garment (underneath the loose sleeve) that goes up to the wrist, and then the hands are uncovered?
As opposed to skin up to the wrist, and then with gloves of some sort.
The female half of gemini is wearing effectively the same dress, and to my eye it also makes sense interpreting it that way:
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(10-07-2026, 12:00 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I kind of trained my mind to "enhance" that yellow color, since it is indeed very faded. But it's always nice to see enhanced versions, and I think this is a valid approach. (As long as we keep in mind that it remains an altered image).
So yes, she's intended to be wearing a yellow garment under her blue dress. You also see so clearly how the blue is applied in "lines".
Now that i've seen the high saturation/altered contrast image, I can't unsee the different colour in the original either..
Do you think this is worth scoring in any way? Perhaps a yellow trim +0.5 for (blue) clothing since it's rather rare? We do have 2 relatively high scoring virgos with blue clothing + yellow trim. It seems relevant.
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I think the VM Virgo is wearing a large blue dress over a tighter long-sleeved yellow garment. The VM Gemini might be the same, but here the undergarment seems to have an extra trim. You can see a similar trim on male Genini. There's no trim on the oversleeves. So I personally would not add to the scores of those examples with gold trim on their sleeves ..
(10-07-2026, 11:14 AM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[Breviarium monasterii s. Georgii]
XIII.C.1a; Národní knihovna České republiky; Praha; Česká republika
Folio 4v
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Curious that the Sagitarius (f6v) has a fish tail...
All the best, --stolfi
Various images with gloves
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and gauntlets.
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I only checked some, hit or miss, but did not see any with 'exposed' wrists. Where there are gloves shown, they seem to be obvious.
Is it worthwhile adding a criterion for good dating, moving the more relevant examples up a bit and those that are too late down?
Several instances of the Double Line Collar. 1420 Germany
Other illustrations in this ms. have more examples.
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