The Voynich Ninja

I have published this You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., on my website, please review it, if you can. Also, some words which are provided in the appendices did not have clear letters in the voynich manuscript so I had to factor them out. Its subject is about vocabulary that emerges by using the method of deciphering. And there are words that can be used to recognize and read the rest of the words which will appear on different pages.

Could you explain how you decided which sounds map to which Voynich characters? E.g. if I'm reading this right you assigned a 'd' or 'z' sound to the Voynich character that looks like an o.

Your link did not take me to your site, but to the automatic download, without warning me. I find this not very courteous.

(22-01-2024, 02:23 PM)Pepper Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Could you explain how you decided which sounds map to which Voynich characters? E.g. if I'm reading this right you assigned a 'd' or 'z' sound to the Voynich character that looks like an o.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and now you can see letter with e sound is counted m. For letters you can search sites like omniglot. Apparently, I've taken D from Gupta script and it worked fine so I continued examinations with that sound.
Imagine we have a word with order of letters a.b.c and for a we find 4 letters in 4 languages with same shape, we take sounds of these letters in all 4 languages and will put them in the word's template (the same way for b and c ). There would be different combinations of sounds for a.b.c template, but only a few of them will create meanings. Next, we check other words... I would put sounds that create meanings in these combinations, in an alphabet set. 
That is probably not the final 100% working alphabet set, but the one that I used for the current examination.

(22-01-2024, 04:43 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Your link did not take me to your site, but to the automatic download, without warning me. I find this not very courteous.

Sorry, I thought it would be easier than navigating through site. The link is edited now.

It seems to me that the proposed mapping between Voynich glyphs and Persian letters should address the frequencies of the respective symbol sets.

If we use the v101 transliteration, herbal section, as the corpus of reference, as illustrated in the tables below, there is in most cases a large difference between the frequency of the Voynich glyph (or glyphs) and that of the Persian letter (or letters) proposed to correspond. 

The Persian letter frequencies are from a corpus of modern Persian, and the frequency analysis would be better if based on Middle Persian (for example the Ruba'iyat of Omar Khayyam); but I'm inclined to think that the frequencies in Middle Persian would not be much different.

[attachment=8092]

[attachment=8093]

(22-01-2024, 05:33 PM)dfs346 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It seems to me that the proposed mapping between Voynich glyphs and Persian letters should address the frequencies of the respective symbol sets.

If we use the v101 transliteration, herbal section, as the corpus of reference, as illustrated in the tables below, there is in most cases a large difference between the frequency of the Voynich glyph (or glyphs) and that of the Persian letter (or letters) proposed to correspond. 

The Persian letter frequencies are from a corpus of modern Persian, and the frequency analysis would be better if based on Middle Persian (for example the Ruba'iyat of Omar Khayyam); but I'm inclined to think that the frequencies in Middle Persian would not be much different.

Oh, is that frequency comparison for raw Voynich lines? I think signs of language in matter of letter frequency may happen after omissions of rule 2, here is where you can see appendices linked in the paper (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
And after that, still even if frequency result said it is some kind of Persian, it is not. It is made of coded words. Regarding the sentences and phrases which appear after application of rule 2, I asked some dialectology professors they were unable to identify any living Persian dialects. It is understandable with Persian but not a Persian language itself.

Here's an example of a Voynich line (f1v, line 1, the first line of the herbal section), transliterated to Persian using the proposed mapping. Where there were several possible Persian letters, I selected the most common.

[attachment=8098]

I'm not a speaker of Persian, but Google Translate does not recognise any of these strings as Persian words.

What's the next step, towards yielding real words in Persian?

(22-01-2024, 07:33 PM)dfs346 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here's an example of a Voynich line (f1v, line 1, the first line of the herbal section), transliterated to Persian using the proposed mapping. Where there were several possible Persian letters, I selected the most common.

I'm not a speaker of Persian, but Google Translate does not recognise any of these strings as Persian words.

What's the next step, towards yielding real words in Persian?

There are some Persian words if you change reading, its like (for example): I picked a fruit vs I pickeda fru it
Here you can give آمد ,قاارات , هوا to google translate, it will translate it if it has the meaning. I recommend using the online dictionary site of Dehkhoda and enable google translate after finding the entry.

However, it is not a v101 transliteration in my translations. As explained in the paper, I first remove repetitions, for this line in my transliteration the raw form would be like:
RI.A'.H.V, A'.D.S.A.M, D.T', D.T', P.A'.T.V, A'.A. R, GA.A.R, A.T", V, P.T.T.V, A'.A.R, D.R, D.A'.V, S.A'.D, T'.RI.D, S.V, D.RI.D.S.A.R, A'.D.S.V, S.D, RIA.V, RIA.D, RIA.V, J.V, S.RI.J.T.T.V, PA.V, RI.D.P.A'.D.S.V, S.A.T', S.D.T', A'.D.RI.T.D, S.A.M.R, S.A.T", H.D, A'.T.V, A'.D, RI.D.S.V( ... ریاهو ا دسام دت دت پاتو اار قاارات )

َAfter the Application of Rule 1& 2 (See 2. Materials and Methods, 2.1. Rules):
RI.A'.H.V, A'.D.S.A.M , P.A'.T.V, A', GA, A.T", P.T, A, V, S.A', T'.RI, S.V, D.RI.D.S.A.R, A'.D.S.V, S.D, V, D, J, S.RI.J.T, PA, RI.D.P.A'.D.S, A, A'.D.RI.T, M.R, T", H.D, T.V, D, RI.D.S.V

Now I will read it like this, with help of mentioned words in table 2.
RI.A'.H.V, A'.D.S.A.M , P.A'.T.V, A', GA, A.T", P.T, A, V, S.A', T'.RI, S.V, D.RI.D.S.A.R, A'.D.S.V, S.D, V, D, J, S.RI.J.T, PA, RI.D.P.A'.D.S, A, A'.D.RI.T, M.R, T", H.D, T.V, D, RI.D.S.V

RIA HVADS AMPAT VAGAAT P TAVS ATRI SVD

ریع حوادث انبات واقعات ب تاوش عطری شود

Try putting this in google translate (Persian to English) and it will translate it into something, still some words such as ریع which is an old word in Arabic origin, you can only find translation in dictionaries.
With dictionary output it translates to:
Increase/growth of accidents, growth of incidents, with heat/radiation it will be fragrant.

Many thanks for this clarification. Indeed, we don't need to use the v101 transliteration; we can map directly from the glyphs to Persian letters, as per the proposed mapping. That would be a manual task. The advantage of using v101 as an intermediate step is that the v101 glyphs are available in Unicode, as are the Persian letters. Therefore, using the find-and-replace function in Microsoft Word or Excel, it's a half-hour's work to apply the proposed mapping to a line, a paragraph, a page or even the whole Voynich manuscript.

I attempted to apply the proposed mapping, followed by rules 1 and 2, to page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. line 1. I used Unicode symbols for some of the phonetic strings, to allow the find-and-replace function to work, as follows:

• all upper case mapped to lower case
  
• A' mapped to á
  
• T' mapped to ť
  
• T" mapped to ŧ
  

This yielded the following result:

[attachment=8107]

I noted your interpretation (Step 3) and copied it into Google Translate, with the following result:

[attachment=8100]

I understand that Step 3 involves an iterative removal or insertion of spaces in the Voynich text. I guess this is necessarily a subjective process, since the spaces between successive glyphs span a spectrum. Glen Claston's v101 transliteration uses (I think correctly) a distinction between "spaces" and "uncertain spaces"; but even "uncertain spaces" are of varying width. I think the removal and insertion of spaces introduces an arbitrary element into the process. 

I would like to invite the comments of this forum on the extent to which Step 3 could be systematised. In other words: could we create a rule for removal or insertion of spaces, that does not rely on a subjective search for specific words?