The Voynich Ninja

(09-08-2022, 09:23 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.And also as just a kind of random example of what was going on at the time. There are multiple variations in heterodoxy to say the least. 

Just this heterodoxy of the time allows the speculation that the VMS could have originated in the mystical environment of the Beguines, who populated the cities by the thousands. They were again under the protection of the Church only in the middle of the 15th century. In case of disputes about the content of a work, there would not even have been an ecclesiastical hearing before. Thus also a "coding" of the VMS (in the broadest sense) is comprehensible. One could thus avoid all hostility on the part of the church.
As I said, this is speculation, but there are probably few arguments to contradict it. The lack of Christian symbolism in the VMS is not a problem, in my opinion. Also the fact that there is a large herbal section in the VMS would not be problematic if one assumes that it is a compilation volume. Plants and mysticism could well be a related topic in the Middle Ages.

As I continue to learn more about this historical era, I can only say that number of historical variations only increases.

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I figure I don't yet know the half of it. While historical possibilities increase, what about the VMs? Of course, we must assume its 'chronological' validity based on the C-14 test - as the primary option. Does the content correspond to the C-14 "definition"?

Why choose a Beguine rather than a Premonstratensian or a Colettine Poor Clare in Hesdin or Heidelberg?

There is not a lack of Christian symbolism in the VMs, if by that you mean an absence. There does appear to be a minimal amount, just a few crosses here and there. However, there seems to be a growing set of interpretations that indicate a religious connection in more subtle, "newly recognized" ways. The critter of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. can be interpreted as an Agnus Dei representation. The recent "rho- chi" discovery is obvious, artistic deception. References to Mariology, the Herb of the Virgin, with Saint Michael's wings. The Arches of the Virgin in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. The Wreath of the Virgin, an on-going tradition. The subtle combination of VMs Virgo and the Virgin standing on the crescent Moon. The double rainbow throne (unoccupied). The Fieschi popes and the cardinal's red galero, a historical tradition since modified somewhat. And there are the nymphs with a ring and a cross that correspond to the attributed items of Colette of Corbie who reformed the Poor Clares.

It's been a process of discovery, by various investigators. I would say that the examples of potential religious symbolism are starting to accumulate and to some extent they validate each other. Some variety of mysticism is surely a possibility.

The reason why I tend to refer to beguines is that, having grown up in Flanders, this is the female religious order I am most familiar with. My home town has a pretty beguinage which is part of UNESCO world Heritage. Around the VM's carbon dating, it was a town within the city, under protection of the Burgundian ruler.

Even though beguines sound incredibly boring now, there was something rebellious, courageous and free about them, this group of women just deciding to live together without taking the vows nuns would take (hence they were free to leave) and at times challenging the establishment with their independence.

Just to say, I'd find it really awesome if the VM turned out to have something to do with beguines or similar figures. I just don't think we have enough proof to say anything like this.

Has anyone compared the VMS drawings with the texts of Hildegard von Bingen?

I found that consecutive parts of the texts of "Physica" and "Causae et Curae" that match the drawings of the VMS.

Physica: Plants, Medicines
Causae et Curae: Human, World, Planets/Starsigns



An example is f68r1/r2 versus the section "De Luna" (About the Moon) where she explains 

DE:
"Wenn er kein Licht mehr hat geht er unter die Sonne"
"Ist der Mond ganz voll, ..., dann lässt er sein Licht von sich und übergibt es den Sternen und so werden die Sterne heller"

EN:
"When he has no light, he wanders below the sun"
"If it's a full moon, .., then he will give his light away and give it to the stars, so they become brighter"

I think this matches the left page, with few stars, moon at bottom, and the right page, more stars, moon at top.

There might be more matches, which I have posted here:


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Should I put this into a new thread or does this fit the search for female authors (or based on female authors)? Either way, feel free to let me know what you think

Hildegard has been mentioned a lot on the forum, you can use the search function to find relevant posts. This thread for example: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. .

It is probably better to use one of those threads, or feel free to start your own.

Perhaps I am reading too much into this, but I think I have discovered some references to the Beguines in the VMS. Admittedly, they are only single fragments that one would still have to put into a meaningful context.

Spinning and weaving was one of the occupations of the Beguines to earn a living. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. & f85r2
[attachment=6740]
[attachment=6741]

Caring for the sick and preparing the dead was another area of work. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. [attachment=6742]

In addition, the Beguines also worked as midwives. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. [attachment=6743]

By the way, if the nymphs are souls, then it is understandable that they are naked.

As I said, I am far from providing solid evidence.

The problem is that these things are part of medieval culture in a much broader, more general way. Spinning was basically what women did when they were not occupied in another way. And the soul as a nude figure is common in church art forms, like the last judgement, resurrection of the dead... And while the soul as a female entity was a subject especially popular with women, there were also men who thought of their own soul as female. So while I am an avid supporter of the "souls and spinning" angle, I still have not seen any evidence that would specifically point towards female creators, let alone a specific order.

Here's a podcast about Beguines with Tanya Stabler Miller ( Assistant Professor of History at Loyola University Chicago ).

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Beguines were clearly represented, but other groups of women were also present. Beguines might be associated with weaving, but how does that distinguish them from normal women, as Koen said above. How to make the distinction? 

It's VMs ambiguity. Does the nymph with the spindle represent the Bequines? Are the ring and cross the attributes of Colette of Corbie?

Does depiction imply / require participation? Maybe, or maybe not. The VMs nymphs are not all generic. Some of them have attributes and personalities that would have been more relevant and familiar to people of the C-14 era, than they are in the present day.

The problem of ambiguity is that singular items are not conclusive. Two or more witnesses are required.

(10-08-2022, 09:06 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The reason why I tend to refer to beguines is that, having grown up in Flanders, this is the female religious order I am most familiar with. My home town has a pretty beguinage which is part of UNESCO world Heritage. Around the VM's carbon dating, it was a town within the city, under protection of the Burgundian ruler.

Even though beguines sound incredibly boring now, there was something rebellious, courageous and free about them, this group of women just deciding to live together without taking the vows nuns would take (hence they were free to leave) and at times challenging the establishment with their independence.

Just to say, I'd find it really awesome if the VM turned out to have something to do with beguines or similar figures. I just don't think we have enough proof to say anything like this.

Hi, Koen, is it possible that there was a relationship between the Bogomil (Cathari, Patareni) women being persecuted would re-surface as a Catholic religious sect. I studied the Bogomils for an article I wrote a couple of years ago, and I learned that Bogomil women were founding schools and hospitals and lived in comunes. They were originally  iconoclasts and their interpreted the bible symbolically. 
There are several towns and villages in the present day Slovenia called Begunje, one of the main one being near Bled, which in the 15th century was in the possession of the Bishop of Brixen. 
In Slovenian, beg means 'running away from danger'.
One more thing, the medieval spirituality in Slovenia in the 15th century was greatly influenced by Via Moderna and German mysics, such as Nicholas of Cusa and Henry Susa.