27-03-2021, 01:09 PM
27-03-2021, 01:09 PM
27-03-2021, 01:50 PM
(27-03-2021, 01:09 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(26-03-2021, 10:07 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Actually... A ball game isn't a bad idea for this folio, is it? There is one ball "in play".Could also be a debating forum... you hold the ball to talk
I have always found Patrick Feaster’s suggestion that it is showing the construction of the text in process, using a jeton and a board to be feasible. It is discussed at the very end of this blog entry:
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27-03-2021, 04:11 PM
(27-03-2021, 01:09 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(26-03-2021, 10:07 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Actually... A ball game isn't a bad idea for this folio, is it? There is one ball "in play".Could also be a debating forum... you hold the ball to talk
I had completely forgotten about that. Yes, you "pass the ball".
27-03-2021, 04:20 PM
(27-03-2021, 10:25 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Other globular objects appear in the hands of figures of similar diagrams You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (right-side figure) and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Though You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is different, with naked figures and no other "attributes" than this single "ball", it is possible that the globular objects in these diagrams are related.
Hmm yes, they may be related, especially since in each diagram the globe is in the east.
If it is inspired by a ball game, I would certainly agree that it must be a metaphor or symbol as, I believe, most human figures in the VM are. I would be opposed to an interpretation as a literal ball game (those aren't played in the nude, after all) but as a metaphor? Who knows. The fact that there is only one object in play and the other players are reaching/lifting their arms might support this idea. Even in something like the snowball fight, you would expect more figures to hold an object, but here there is only one.
27-03-2021, 05:15 PM
28-03-2021, 05:20 PM
Apparently I should also move to Spain :p
Anyway, thinking about it some more, if the globe is the sun or something similar, then it works like this:
[attachment=5414]
Anyway, thinking about it some more, if the globe is the sun or something similar, then it works like this:
[attachment=5414]
28-03-2021, 05:46 PM
Don't hesitate Koen. Come to Spain and you will not be bored
In my opinion the object that holds the figure of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a crystal ball or crystal sphere. Is what makes sense because it is an astronomical diagram with several circles that represent the spheres that made up the universe according to medieval cosmology
In my opinion the object that holds the figure of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a crystal ball or crystal sphere. Is what makes sense because it is an astronomical diagram with several circles that represent the spheres that made up the universe according to medieval cosmology
28-03-2021, 08:37 PM
I see this as a smaller area depicted than f85r2, which in my interpretation was Azov at the top, Burgundy to the left, Spain to the bottom and the entire Italian Peninsula to the right, and which discussed travel directions via water routes available between them.
I think this one does the same thing, but uses pointing arms instead of water spouts (which both stand in for waterways), and depicts a smaller general area, more in keeping with the rosette with the TO map attached to it, which has the Alps as basically central to that world.
To me it says the one at the top (east in my opinion) (i am thinking Black Sea area, Danube Delta specifically) can reach where the one on the left (north, or Burgundy) and the one at the bottom (west, or France & Spain) meet, (this would be the Danube to the Rhine route, which makes north anything above the Rhine delta.)
France or Spain can reach Italy by travelling east. I see the orb as being indicative of wealth and power, possibly related to Cosimo de Medici.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. It might also be related to the Council of Florence, because the one with the orb is not going anywhere, not pointing at anyone, just holding the orb, so they seem to be hosting an event, and others are shown the way to get there from their respective locations.
The Council of Florence is the seventeenth ecumenical council recognized by the Catholic Church, held between 1431 and 1449. It was convoked as the Council of Basel by Pope Martin V shortly before his death in February 1431 and took place in the context of the Hussite wars in Bohemia and the rise of the Ottoman Empire. (it was moved in 1438 to Ferrara and January 1439 to Florence).
The rise of the Ottoman Empire is i think the reason for the obfuscation we see in the manuscript. It is about preserving information without giving away knowledge to those they might want to keep it from.
However the upper (east) one cannot go directly to the orb but must travel through a complex of seas and rivers before reaching the Italian Peninsula, so the arm points around and not to the figure on the right directly.
Similarly, France would have to go around and up the coastline to get any further north than the Rhine delta so it does not point directly at Burgundy but around it.
I think this one does the same thing, but uses pointing arms instead of water spouts (which both stand in for waterways), and depicts a smaller general area, more in keeping with the rosette with the TO map attached to it, which has the Alps as basically central to that world.
To me it says the one at the top (east in my opinion) (i am thinking Black Sea area, Danube Delta specifically) can reach where the one on the left (north, or Burgundy) and the one at the bottom (west, or France & Spain) meet, (this would be the Danube to the Rhine route, which makes north anything above the Rhine delta.)
France or Spain can reach Italy by travelling east. I see the orb as being indicative of wealth and power, possibly related to Cosimo de Medici.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. It might also be related to the Council of Florence, because the one with the orb is not going anywhere, not pointing at anyone, just holding the orb, so they seem to be hosting an event, and others are shown the way to get there from their respective locations.
The Council of Florence is the seventeenth ecumenical council recognized by the Catholic Church, held between 1431 and 1449. It was convoked as the Council of Basel by Pope Martin V shortly before his death in February 1431 and took place in the context of the Hussite wars in Bohemia and the rise of the Ottoman Empire. (it was moved in 1438 to Ferrara and January 1439 to Florence).
The rise of the Ottoman Empire is i think the reason for the obfuscation we see in the manuscript. It is about preserving information without giving away knowledge to those they might want to keep it from.
However the upper (east) one cannot go directly to the orb but must travel through a complex of seas and rivers before reaching the Italian Peninsula, so the arm points around and not to the figure on the right directly.
Similarly, France would have to go around and up the coastline to get any further north than the Rhine delta so it does not point directly at Burgundy but around it.
29-03-2021, 03:21 PM
(27-03-2021, 01:50 PM)MichelleL11 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have always found Patrick Feaster’s suggestion that it is showing the construction of the text in process, using a jeton and a board to be feasible.
Amen, Michelle. I just discovered the blog post you linked ~2wks ago, and was pretty impressed. Not only does Patrick Feaster present one of the best original ideas I've encountered in some time about how Voynichese might have worked as a cipher system, but he starts with a whirlwind tour of the latest major developments in Voynich studies. This guy has done his homework. I left him a comment inviting him to join in the discussions here on the Ninja, and really hope he does. As an expert in historical media, he's well qualified.
I'm especially interested in getting Prof Feaster in a [virtual] room together with Koen Gheuens and his SYLORD glyphs, and Brian Cham and David Jackson with their curve-line system. There's a lot of common ground to all four of these researchers' observations.
29-03-2021, 06:18 PM