The Voynich Ninja

Maybe you're all right!

The problem with using short segments of text is the matter of selection. What are the criteria for the investigator's choice?

An alternative option is to follow the VMs author's 'recommendation'. How can the author specify certain parts of the text? Clearly this could be done by various markers and indicators such as the small patterned insertions in the circular bands of text. Yet even these are fairly numerous, so which one?

Consider VMs White Aries. This is where historical references, the presence of pairing, and the use of patterned markers all combine together. The outer text band is highly unusual, if not unique, in its use of word repetition. This factor may help to provide a check on the validity of potential interpretations.

(23-05-2020, 02:51 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To be precise, I don't work "with Greek theory". I was drawn to the manuscript because I saw clearly several Slavic words  in the botanical section. However in the bathing section, I think see several Greek words. I admit that I know more Greek words than Latin words, because Old-Slavic dictionaries systematically give the equivalents of words in Greek, rarely in Latin.

Excuse me for my inexactness. Nevertheless I just wanted to say that I can expect Greek words in the VMs. I tried to interpret one of the label words in Greek and had an interesting result, but it must be checked, and I hope to do this soon. Perhaps, it's just a coincidence, as it usually happens.
For all that I don't want to go to off-top, so I'll write about this in an appropriate thread later.

Searcher, have you seen Geoffrey Caveney's thread?

He clearly recognized that there are many non-natural-language properties in the VMS text and tried to find a language group that might have similar properties. He put quite a bit of effort into trying to resolve these peculiarities within the Greek language:

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(23-05-2020, 10:58 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Searcher, have you seen Geoffrey Caveney's thread?
He clearly recognized that there are many non-natural-language properties in the VMS text and tried to find a language group that might have similar properties. He put quite a bit of effort into trying to resolve these peculiarities within the Greek language:
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Most likely I haven't seen the whole thread, possibly, I read some separate posts from it. Just haven't been too active in the Voynich reality last year.
Now I quickly looked through the main points, but it needs time to see into this theory more carefully. I understand the idea, but unfortunately don't know Greek to judge about correctness of the obtained sentences or phrases. I didn't try Greek in interpretations, besides some labels. 
I hope my inspiration won't end quickly this time and will make tries again with another approaches. The main thing is not to succumb to dissappointment.

(24-05-2020, 12:09 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Now I quickly looked through the main points, but it needs time to see into this theory more carefully. I understand the idea, but unfortunately don't know Greek to judge about correctness of the obtained sentences or phrases. I didn't try Greek in interpretations, besides some labels. 
I hope my inspiration won't end quickly this time and will make tries again with another approaches. The main thing is not to succumb to dissappointment.

Keep in mind that Geoffrey's lack of knowledge of Greek was a main point brought against him. I recall him being unable to counter this point to everyone's satisfaction. Although the conversation remained polite and civil, I recall feeling a general tone of disrespect for his perceived hesitation in admitting this fact. The way Geoffrey's theory wrapped up made me cringe, because it was well-thought-out theory that actually attempted to address the statistical anomalies of Voynichese. But I think it's fair to say that he got told pretty hard by ChenZheChina and MarcoP, and didn't take this as gracefully as he could have, which really hurt his credibility.

I think the reason Geoffrey's thread provoked such a strong reaction in me is because I relate to him. I naturally think and write more like an artist than a scientist. Learning to stick to facts only, using precise and unadorned language, and to always submit humbly and gracefully to a fair factual challenge, are things that had to be trained into me, and still don't come naturally to me. Geoffrey is a talented writer and an intelligent man whose writing I enjoyed reading. I'm not sure how much he realized that he was selling his idea to a number of experts who are unimpressed with beautiful writing, and give points only for new facts brought to light. I've even found that in highly scientific circles, speaking or writing "too beautifully" makes people suspicious of me, even if the facts I'm arguing are solid. I suspect that flowery prose automatically puts a lot of scientists on guard for intellectual dishonesty. At the very least, it can elicit a "Get to the point, I don't have time for this meandering drivel." kind of reception.

TL;DR, there's a lot of friction between VMs theorists who think like artists, and those who think like scientists. It's a shame that the two styles of thinking and perceiving repel each other so often, because they both have something valuable to contribute.

(24-05-2020, 02:25 PM)RenegadeHealer Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.TL;DR, there's a lot of friction between VMs theorists who think like artists, and those who think like scientists. It's a shame that the two styles of thinking and perceiving repel each other so often, because they both have something valuable to contribute.

Yes, but I believe - not always. 
What would be a big success is to being somewhere in the middle.

(24-05-2020, 07:25 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, but I believe - not always. 
What would be a big success is to being somewhere in the middle.

I couldn't agree more, Searcher. I'm a Hermeticist, and one of my favorite interpretations of the concept of the Great Work, is finding that balance point between thinking like a scientist and thinking like an artist, head and heart, facts and feelings, etc. Knowing what tasks are better suited to one approach than the other, and being able to switch between them smoothly. "Alchemy" is really an excellent metaphor for the paradox of getting two systems to mix that don't naturally mix.

Part of what intrigues me about the VMs is the potential that it contains occult knowledge, which was intended to be revealed to initiates in a systematic stepwise fashion. This doesn't mean I think the content itself (assuming there is any), at face value, will necessarily be earth-shattering. Just like a well-written mystery novel, the art and the impact of esoteric spiritual teachings is much more in the delivery — in what order and at what pace the puzzle pieces are revealed — than what the finished puzzle looks like.

(24-05-2020, 02:56 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I can read a tiny bit of Greek, if it's subject matter that's familiar, but I do not know Greek grammar, so I cannot judge whether his ideas or parts of his ideas would work. I respect his attempt at looking for a framework that has some of the same peculiarities/properties as the VMS text. I wish I knew enough Greek to know if the idea (or parts of it) could go somewhere.

I can read Greek. Geoffrey's proposals were on the level of Cheshire's proto-Romance. As few passing similiarities here and there but nothing more than that.