The Voynich Ninja

(02-01-2020, 08:33 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.And by the way, even if they are maps, they were not always labeled with Euro/Asia/Affro (they frequently spelled Afro with ff), sometimes they were named after Noah's sons.

I have seen one with Noah sons, but they are very rare. The Africa spelling is not a huge concern of mine at the moment.

(02-01-2020, 09:03 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I honestly don't think it matters too much that there are some that can't be interpreted. It's 200 pages of text. If something is unclear, there are other sections that are clear. Once they are worked out, one can come back to the ones that are less clear.

In this instance it is important as there is the question as to whether the first 3 or 4 glyphs of the 2 words are the same. If both are T/O maps and we have Africa, Europe and Asia then not open does this serve as a small crib, but if the text in the T/O in the rosettes page is an abbreviated representation of the text in the f68v3 page then this could give insights into the representation of abbreviations. Also if there is a match then that supports the notion that they are both the same kind of thing.

I find it hard to come to any other conclusion than they are both T/O maps and if so the Africa-Europe-Asia interpretation I have given is by far and away the most probable one.

I just wish I had significantly higher resolution scans.

(02-01-2020, 09:22 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I find it hard to come to any other conclusion than they are both T/O maps and if so the Africa-Europe-Asia interpretation I have given is by far and away the most probable one.

Well, this is not a conclusion. This was your assumption from the start.
To come to a conclusion you would need to have some evidence, and your argument across the several posts has been that the evidence is unclear and you need better scans.

From the available scans, one would have to conclude that the word starts don't actually match.

There is some superficial similarity in two of the three parts.

(02-01-2020, 09:13 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have seen one with Noah sons, but they are very rare. The Africa spelling is not a huge concern of mine at the moment.

I have seen several, so they are not super rare. They are, however, less common that those labeled with the political names.


You may not care about the spelling of Affra, but there might be other people reading the thread who would like to know that it was common to shorten it and to double the "f".

Speaking of better scans... Stephen Bax was entrusted with spectral scans and said he was going to upload them.

He never did (to my knowledge). He said they were too big (which struck me as odd because he had his own domain and it's possible to simply put them in a directory and provide a link or to ask someone else to host them).


I'm not trying to point fingers, my concern is about whether they are still available and am just filling in the little I know about it... is there any way someone else could acquire the scans so we could see them? I was quite excited about it and then disappointed when they didn't appear.

(02-01-2020, 09:37 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(02-01-2020, 09:22 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I find it hard to come to any other conclusion than they are both T/O maps and if so the Africa-Europe-Asia interpretation I have given is by far and away the most probable one.

Well, this is not a conclusion. This was your assumption from the start.
To come to a conclusion you would need to have some evidence, and your argument across the several posts has been that the evidence is unclear and you need better scans.

From the available scans, one would have to conclude that the word starts don't actually match.

There is some superficial similarity in two of the three parts.

I was saying this is a conclusion on the basis of having looked at T/O maps etc. This is an assumption in this argument that I have been discussing here, but a conclusion of another argument. My point about better scans was to do with the reading of text not whether it is a T/O map.

Please do tell me how you conclude the beginnings of the word doesn't match. I have looked at them closely so I am very surprised that you are so sure.

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(02-01-2020, 09:44 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Speaking of better scans... Stephen Bax was entrusted with spectral scans and said he was going to upload them.

He never did (to my knowledge). He said they were too big (which struck me as odd because he had his own domain and it's possible to simply put them in a directory and provide a link or to ask someone else to host them).


I'm not trying to point fingers, my concern is about whether they are still available and am just filling in the little I know about it... is there any way someone else could acquire the scans so we could see them? I was quite excited about it and then disappointed when they didn't appear.

If we could obtain such scans that would be wonderful. This is certainly not the only instance where I would appreciate better scans.

(02-01-2020, 09:44 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Speaking of better scans... Stephen Bax was entrusted with spectral scans and said he was going to upload them.

He never did (to my knowledge). He said they were too big (which struck me as odd because he had his own domain and it's possible to simply put them in a directory and provide a link or to ask someone else to host them).


I'm not trying to point fingers, my concern is about whether they are still available and am just filling in the little I know about it... is there any way someone else could acquire the scans so we could see them? I was quite excited about it and then disappointed when they didn't appear.

These were multi-spectral scans, or rather, extracts of them. A multi-spectral scan is not an image, but a set of images. The ones that have been somewhat circulated were already processed to highlight particular frequency combinations.
These processed images did not have a higher spatial resolution (at all) but instead highlighted certain frequency bands to point out properties of the pigments.

(02-01-2020, 09:37 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(02-01-2020, 09:22 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I find it hard to come to any other conclusion than they are both T/O maps and if so the Africa-Europe-Asia interpretation I have given is by far and away the most probable one.

Well, this is not a conclusion. This was your assumption from the start.
To come to a conclusion you would need to have some evidence, and your argument across the several posts has been that the evidence is unclear and you need better scans.

From the available scans, one would have to conclude that the word starts don't actually match.

There is some superficial similarity in two of the three parts.

I have looked at lots of T/O maps and in their context both seem to fit as T/O maps. Finding any other medieval drawings that have the same shape is very difficult. Of course it is possible they are not T/O maps. It is possible that the plants in the herbal section are not really plants, so anything is possible. However I think it is very likely they are T/O maps and as far as I have seen nobody else has proposed an alternative explanation based on illustrations from other sources or compelling arguments.