The Voynich Ninja

(18-04-2026, 08:56 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Linda, it's amazing how you manage to bring the figures to life. The result is fascinating. I suppose you included the images to show that not all the female figures are marching in the same direction. But there's really no contradiction because the figures coming out of the tubes aren't marching. What reveals an intention is the fact that in all the signs where the figures are standing and marching they always do so in the same direction, mimicking the movement of the celestial sphere.

Thank you, Antonio,  but the praise goes to Patrick Feaster, I saw the images in Google  just before I read your mention of marching, but hadn't yet seen where they came from. They are indeed fascinating to look at. 
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Quote:   Only in Pisces do we see the female figures emerging from the tubes, and not all of them, but only those in the inner circle, because those in the outer circle are inside the tubes. I don't think this is accidental, but rather intentional, just as the zodiac begins with Pisces in March, when nature begins to be reborn.

I am not sure all are female. I agree emerging seems the right word. But I thought it portrays more as coming out after withstanding a storm, ... or a winter, i suppose, I guess I can see how these ideas could mesh with spring.

Quote:    Since the female figures are a representation of the stars, of astral influence, in the minds of the authors there is a temporal sequence in the way that influence develops, that is, in the way the figures emerge from the tubes. In quire 13, as a continuation of the zodiac, we see the figures completely outside the tubes, traveling through the conduits of the universe and heading towards Earth. What the authors want to show with this iconography is the journey of the stars to fertilize the Earth and make plants grow.

I had to reread that but I think I understand. You mean the authors drew the nymphs coming out of the tubes in such a way as to denote their influence being generated?  I guess the questions that come to mind are, do they always influence or only when they get here, or when their influence gets here? I kind of get the idea that the Starshine that would come from a star would be it's influence, would it?

Linda, I see you still have doubts about the gender of the figures we see in the Voynich. What we see are hundreds of female figures. There are no male figures, even though it may seem like there are some.


For me it has a clear explanation: they represent the fixed stars. And for any speaker of a language derived from Latin it is easier to see this than for a speaker whose mother tongue is English because this language lacks grammatical gender.

Here in Spain I once entered a restaurant that distinguished the men's and women's toilets with a Sun and Moon painted on the door. A speaker of a Latin language would have no problem, but an English speaker would be puzzled not knowing what his/her toilet is.

Although it seems like a minor problem, it is not considering that this forum is developed in English and almost all of the VM's research has been done in this language.

(21-04-2026, 07:43 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[..] the men's and women's toilets with a Sun and Moon painted on the door. A speaker of a Latin language would have no problem,[..]

Fantastic.
My language is having grammatical genders, and it always was:
die Sonne (she/female)
der Mond (he/male),
so I would immediately run into the wrong lavatory at this restaurant…
also:
der Stern (he/male):
either your vague theory „prooves“ that the VMS has no German or other origins, coming exclusive from a latin understanding,
or the thin-iced idea of women „representing“ the stars (which come either combined with each womens‘ figure, what kind of representation may that be? Or women are just seen bathing, without any reasonable astroXoXical relation) is not to be kept upright anymore.

By the way, I agree with you that there are nearly no original(!) male figures, apart from those in Sagittarius and Gemini badges, in whole VMS.

Hey Stefan, there's something you agree with me on. We'll have to celebrate!

Indeed, in your German language (which I love because my granddaughter is half German) the moon is a masculine noun. But, as you will have seen in the Voynich, the moon is depicted with feminine features. This does not mean that their authors were not German. They very well could have been, but as cultured men they used Latin for their works, especially if they were scientific, as is the case with Voynich.

The fact that we see hundreds of female figures in the codex has no other explanation than the fact that in Latin star, stella, is a feminine name.

  You say that my idea that female figures are a representation of the stars is a thin-iced idea. But I tell you, it's the key to understanding what the Voynich is.

(21-04-2026, 07:30 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[..] as you will have seen in the Voynich, the moon is depicted with feminine features. [..]

Frankly, when talking about symbolism, I cannot help but to show those symbols here, this is a quick combination of all (hardly to doubt) symbols for sun and moon, with humanized faces I remembered:



"Suns" seem to have a more feminine appearance, while "moons" look quite like guys. At best, some "suns" look at bit butch, but never clearly male. Of course, a question of interpretation, as always.

When you assign male and female symbolism to sun and moon:
why do the few known and not-argued symbols for sun and moon appear like quite the opposite?

Seems more like "la sol" and "el luno" to me (without doing too much harm to your language).

A better entrance and approach to VMS would be to regard this quite obvious "understanding" of a female sun and a male moon
and to consider those cultures which tend to make that kind of "little difference" by standard.

(21-04-2026, 07:43 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What we see are hundreds of female figures. There are no male figures, even though it may seem like there are some.

Why would it seem like there are some, if there are none? 





Wouldn't these require explanation or at least somehow provide further information by not conforming?

Quote:For me it has a clear explanation: they represent the fixed stars. And for any speaker of a language derived from Latin it is easier to see this than for a speaker whose mother tongue is English because this language lacks grammatical gender.

Here in Spain I once entered a restaurant that distinguished the men's and women's toilets with a Sun and Moon painted on the door. A speaker of a Latin language would have no problem, but an English speaker would be puzzled not knowing what his/her toilet is.

Although it seems like a minor problem, it is not considering that this forum is developed in English and almost all of the VM's research has been done in this language.

I know the phrase 'le soleil et la lune', and 'une' vs 'un', so I understand what you are saying, but why, if substituting figures for stars, would they need to match the gender for the word of the object they are to represent? It doesn't distinguish them from representing any other female gendered object, like forks, or tables. It is not helping to identify them in that regard, so why would it be a factor at all? Does this mean you think the language of the makers is derived from Latin? (I know you don't think the writing itself has meaning as a language).

If it is a tenet of your theory that all the figures are female because they represent stars, and that is because stars are female gendered, then I can accept it in that context, but it seems more like a construct than an observation.

Since antiquity the sun has been represented with masculine characteristics and the moon with feminine ones, and the faces of both celestial bodies in the Voynich follow that convention, although there is some ambiguity. The distinction is clearest in the headdress of some images. For example, in the central image of the top row posted by Stefan (f68v1), we see the moon wearing a feminine headdress. If it appears to have rays emanating from it, it's because it's blocking the sun. The composition represents the cycle of day and night, which is why we see blue segments alternating with segments containing stars.

   On the other hand, if among the hundreds of female figures in the Voynich Manuscript there appears to be a male one, it is either simply an illusion or a joke by the author, tired of drawing female bodies. What matters is the intention, the idea that guided the authors, which is none other than to represent the fixed stars of the sky with female figures.

   I recently posted an image of the Pleiades: women with a star above their heads, an iconography similar to that of the Voynich with women holding a star. This type of anthropomorphic representation is so common in the Middle Ages that we are all used to seeing it; for example, in the representation of the planet Mars as a man and Venus as a woman.

(22-04-2026, 08:59 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Since antiquity the sun has been represented with masculine characteristics and the moon with feminine ones,[..]

Invalid.
Celtic, Germanic/Scandinavian, Baltic, Finn and Northern Slavics attributed „female“ to the sun in ancient, pre-christian and off-Latin times, and by at least some languages, even today.
Egyptian, Greek-Latin, Romance, Hungarian and South Slavics promoted the idea of a „male“ sun.

You might say „Since antiquity the sun has been represented with masculine characteristics and the moon with feminine ones in most cultures around the mediterranean sea“,
but you cannot generalize that claim even for whole Europe — not to speak about the rest of this world.

About this thing „there is a moon image covering the sun!“ in VMS picture, I leave it to all spectators to judge this „interpretation“…

Your theory is on a monorail since you believed Panofsky (oh yes, the great expert for Italian, who had nothing better to say about VMS than: „it must be spanish, Alfonso X!“).

It would be ridiculous for me to give a laudatory account of Panofsky here, one of the greatest scholars of art and iconology. What I can say without exaggeration is that, as far as the Voynich imagery is concerned, he is the most qualified person who has consulted it in the entire history of research on the codex. This does not, of course, preclude Panofsky from having doubts, correcting himself, and even making mistakes in some aspects. It seems logical if we consider that we are dealing with a book that is a huge mystery.

   What's astonishing is how little support some of his ideas have received. In this forum, the most important one for Voynich research, there isn't a single thread dedicated to discussing his ideas. I haven't needed to start one because I've cited him hundreds of times. If Panofsky has a defender, it's undoubtedly me.

   What anyone visiting this forum for the first time should know is that we are dealing with an authoritative voice who held the codex in his hands and saw nothing biological or related to bathing. Neither female organs nor women bathing. Was he blind, or did he know how to interpret what he saw?

(23-04-2026, 03:57 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[..]
   What's astonishing is how little support some of his ideas have received.

Oh, that's easy to explain: Spain is not close enough to the Alps.

(23-04-2026, 03:57 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[..]
What I can say without exaggeration is that, as far as the Voynich imagery is concerned, he is the most qualified person who has consulted it in the entire history of research on the codex.

Regarding the Voynich texts, Alan Turing (surely one of the most quaified persons in deciphering) was asked and it seems like he either rejected the possibility of deciphering VMS at all or rejected just the idea of him trying it. This may be a result of VMS's circumstances or only a personal disposition of Turing himself, who was known to be more than excentric.
I don't know details about Panofsky, but the classic Science completely failed yet with all tries to solve this mystery.
Panofsky gave, obviously, also just some not-satisfying answers.

(23-04-2026, 03:57 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[..]
who held the codex in his hands and saw nothing biological or related to bathing. Neither female organs nor women bathing. 
Was he blind, or did he know how to interpret what he saw?

Maybe he entered some over-interpretative orbit, far away from us.

A good observation is worth more than a sophisticated "interpretation" or some spherical imagination.

Apart from Panofsky, let me show what I mean with this:
You claimed the "central image" of my top row of VMS images (of Sun faces) has to be a moon "blocking the sun" and referred to a change of blue lines and star fields around them.
So, according to you, the Sun obtained a Moon's face by combination.
There are two similar patterns of blue-and-stars to be observed at other images; the first one is from 67r, the other is one of the tents in the "Map" at 85/86:


- central badge of 1st picture seems to be a (male) moon here, I had not taken this into my picture rows
- "sunbeams" in red colour, if these are meant to be rays at all
- both images do not give any hint to a "change of day at night", as you interpreted
= the concept of day/night-change is not covered by any other images -- your interpretation is, at best, covered by alternative sources, off VMS.

But what is really puzzling me is the fact that you did not refer your interpretation to the last image of my top row, this little guy here:



You could have had it all;
- a Moon's head with the more-or-less crescent side parts
- a facial expression very similar to those of the other moons
- no long hair or head wear
- even an unexplained extra line visible in the southwest sector of badge

Your claim "Moon is covering the sun" would have been found upon those observations, and I might have hard times to counter that.
Doing "interpretations" may be a bit over sometimes -- that's why I prefer this good old slogan WYSIWYG.
Often enough, we all obviously see rather different things in VMS...