Quote:I believe that the authors of the Voynich were primarily concerned with exhibiting the fruit of their powerful imagination and only later attached a mechanically produced script to accompany the imagery.
Do you realise Antonio that you are very close to gibberish hypothesis?
It's not an accusation. Actually I am close to it myself
It never even crossed my mind that the script was gibberish. I don't call it text, and that's why it's not gibberish to me. Yes, I do believe it was produced using a quasi-mechanical system, as slot-based analyses have shown, especially Zattera's slot system.
But that doesn't mean it's meaningless. It might not make sense to us, but it would have to its creators and to medieval people. What I actually believe is that it was done using a volvelle to fix celestial objects—the sun, the moon, and the fixed stars—and their positions on the ecliptic. It's like an iconic astronomical code.
But as I said, for me, as I believe for its authors, this is secondary, since the codex's true message lies in its images, in the way they express the power of celestial influences. It is an astrological herbal.
Contrary to Stolfi's assertion, it is uncertain that attention was initially focused on the illustrations. Since Kircher's time, the aim has always been to decipher the text, as it is assumed that the script conceals a secret. When the images have been studied, it has been individually—the plants, for example, or the zodiac figures, or something else entirely—but never as a whole. It gives the impression that the Voynich Manuscript has been treated as a compendium of various subjects, rather than as a monographic codex with a clear plan to convey a single subject in a complete and unique way.
I think people aren't very aware of the importance of astrology in the Voynich. It is now a pseudoscience, but for centuries it was believed in and taught in universities. That there is astrology in the Voynich Manuscript is obvious simply by looking at the zodiacal section and the so-called astronomical diagrams, which are actually astrological, such as the one on folio f67v2.
Of course people know there is astrology in the Voynich, but I insist they are not aware of how the belief in celestial influences shaped people's knowledge in the past.
I like to use the example of the seasons. We are currently in winter in the Northern Hemisphere, and we all know that the change of seasons is due to the tilt of the Earth's axis. But for people in the Middle Ages it was winter because the sun was in the sign of Capricorn. The sun received the cold quality of the stars in this constellation.
I give this example only to help people think differently, because I believe that we approach the study of the Voynich without realizing that what we see in this codex belongs to a human mentality very different from our own.
(05-01-2026, 10:34 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think people aren't very aware of the importance of astrology in the Voynich. It is now a pseudoscience, but for centuries it was believed in and taught in universities. That there is astrology in the Voynich Manuscript is obvious simply by looking at the zodiacal section and the so-called astronomical diagrams, which are actually astrological, such as the one on folio f67v2.
Of course people know there is astrology in the Voynich, but I insist they are not aware of how the belief in celestial influences shaped people's knowledge in the past.
I like to use the example of the seasons. We are currently in winter in the Northern Hemisphere, and we all know that the change of seasons is due to the tilt of the Earth's axis. But for people in the Middle Ages it was winter because the sun was in the sign of Capricorn. The sun received the cold quality of the stars in this constellation.
I give this example only to help people think differently, because I believe that we approach the study of the Voynich without realizing that what we see in this codex belongs to a human mentality very different from our own.
We can easily identify the connection to astrology, but the problem is finding absolutely identifiable features and text that is absolutely related to the drawing and then ideally in multiple drawings for confirmation of the correlation.
There are dials with 4 labels, 8 labels. Are these seasons, cardinal directions, gods, phases of the moon? We see stars with labels. Are these names roman gods names that they used for stars, names from some other pantheon, or entirely unknown names? There are no constellations.
I find it interesting that there seems to be no Christian iconography or symbolism. It's all so imprecise that there is no clear meaning for the details.
This is clearly a book from Christian Europe, even though it contains hardly any religious symbols. The reason for this lack of religious imagery is that it is a book of medieval science. There is a desire to search for a text in the Voynich manuscript, which I understand, but I sincerely believe that such a text will never appear, and in the future the idea that the script is Gibberish will gain more and more ground.
It's a shame because I believe there's another way to look at it, and what's needed is to delve deeper into medieval thought and its lack of resemblance to our own.
(06-01-2026, 01:10 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is clearly a book from Christian Europe, even though it contains hardly any religious symbols. The reason for this lack of religious imagery is that it is a book of medieval science. There is a desire to search for a text in the Voynich manuscript, which I understand, but I sincerely believe that such a text will never appear, and in the future the idea that the script is Gibberish will gain more and more ground.
It's a shame because I believe there's another way to look at it, and what's needed is to delve deeper into medieval thought and its lack of resemblance to our own.
It sounds like you're arguing for it being something like the Hildegard of Bingen (12th century) — Lingua Ignota. Are there other manuscripts you would suggest have similar medieval science like you propose is in the VM?
Hildegard was an extraordinary woman, but above all, she was a mystic and a visionary. The lingua ignota and litterae ignotae are the fruit of one of these visions. Their intention is not fully understood, but since they are linked to a revelation, their origin is religious.
It has nothing to do with the Voynich script, which is something designed for scientific use, in my opinion. It may seem strange to say this when we don't know what the text says. But for me there is no text at all, only groups of astronomical symbols that add mystery to what is expressed in the imagery.
There is no other medieval science book with the same characteristics as the Voynich Manuscript. It is unique, and therein lies its great value. My saying that it is a medieval science book probably won't convince many people, but I am confident that it will be seen more clearly in the future.
Quote:It sounds like you're arguing for it being something like the Hildegard of Bingen (12th century) — Lingua Ignota
Lingua Ignota was an attempt at constructed language.
It was possibly never finished and only half-baked, unless some works of Hildegard were lost. We have a dictionary of 1000 words and a short Latin text mixed with some single Lingua Ignota words but not any single longer text in Lingua Ignota and not any hints about its grammar.
If I understand Antonio correctly, he doesn't suggest a constructed language but rather series of astronomical data written in some peculiar notation.
So it's not like Hildegard
No, I'm not arguing that the script is a notation of astronomical data. There's nothing in the Voynich Manuscript like Sacrobosco or astronomical tables. What it clearly contains is astrology, which was also a science, but one closer to magic.
I believe that the glyphs are celestial objects and positions on the ecliptic but with an astrological meaning. For example, I believe that benches are double positions of the moon at a distance of 120 degrees from the sun in both hemispheres. The sun is represented by the gallows in its different positions along its path along the ecliptic.
Everyone has noticed how paragraphs typically begin with a gallows and how the first line usually contains one-legged gallows. Since paragraphs are paths along the ecliptic, this path begins with the sun, and it is in its first journey that the sun's position in relation to the lunar nodes is found.
I am aware that what I am saying will sound absurd to many, but for me the script is perfectly consistent with the Voynich imagery and this, seen as a whole, conveys the power of celestial influences.
No one should forget that we are dealing with a 15th-century codex and that those who created it belonged to a humanity with a very different mindset from our own.
I forgot to mention in the previous post the reason for the 120-degree geometric relationship between the sun and moon. It's the trine aspect in astrology, one of the most positive influences.
The astrological aspects are represented in the Voynich in f67v2 by the small heads in the four corners. These heads represent the sun and the moon and their geometric relationship on the ecliptic circle. The trine is represented in the upper left corner. This astrological aspect is also seen in the so-called clock on the Rosettes page.