The Voynich Ninja

With respect to the EVA-f and the EVA-p, I believe those are important distinctions and should be coded as such in any transcription, mainly because they may or may not be important, but at least now, a distinction is being made between EVA-t, EVA-k and EVA-z until someone can prove otherwise. So that would be consistent. And there is one EVA-k that could be called EVA-k or EVA-z. Again, transcribers discretion.

With respect to the single EVA-m that touches the ring. I found this important. I did not think that was a "swath of the pen" because it differed from the other three. It is just represented by a small dot on my model. For the record, I have not found a use yet.

I noted the EVA-c difference with EVA-172. With respect to EVA-156, EVA-199, EVA-171, et al. Just assumed one glyph for all, but noted that this glyph also crossed into the blank circle above all 4 times.

The real important glyph on this wheel IMO is the "table," EVA-x. The reason is that when aligned with the pair of "tables" on Wheel 4 (EVA) (the innermost wheel), the geometry is perfect between Wheels 4, 3 and 2. Wheel 3 (EVA) has only one "table," which leaves only two directions -- a real one and a fake one. The geometry also works, albeit differently with EVA-d. You'll notice two EVA-d glyphs on Wheel 4 (EVA) spaced 17 cells apart. (There is that number again.) There is only one EVA-d glyph on Wheel 3 (EVA), of course 4 EVA-d glyphs on Wheel 2 (EVA) and two on Wheel 1 (EVA) spaced, you guessed it 17 glyphs apart.

So the "table" 'works' (I use that term loosely!) and EVA-d 'works.' We can cipher blank space!

And the final interesting geometry is EVA-v. The EVA-v on the outer ring, of which there are one, two, or three are either the greatest decoys ever or not. And whether you interpret them as EVA-xsa or also EVA-x then EVA-sa can get you to the magic number of 17 yet again.

So, I dunno. But I don't think all of this is an accident. Last week, Wheel 3 (EVA) were Latin consonants. Today they are Middle French vowels.  Free and worth it!

Addendum:

In trying to clean up a Wheel 1 (EVA) transcription, I am having major problems determining the "number of cells" so that
I can align the geometry with the other wheels. 51, of course, works better with 68 (Wheel 3, Wheel 1 + Wheel 2) because it is 3/4 the whole, 24*2, etc. However, 52 (weeks) or 53 does not, and implies that this may not be a code wheel at all. I have combined the H,V, and U transcriptions with my own and Davidsch You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., but would like to perhaps come to a conclusion once and for all what the reasonably astute count is for Wheel 1 of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -- all opinions welcome.

Please note that a) for this, the count is more important than the transcription, but b) the only EVA convention that will
look unfamiliar is the substitution of c`h for sh. This is simply a different way of building the glyphs in a typeface to encompass
different accents. This gives a count of 53 (i.e. not ideal). Also, most references to EVA-k could easily be interpreted to EVA-z, but are listed as EVA-k, which has been the tradition. If any of you have an interest in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and you have 15 minutes...please compare/contrast.

<f57v.R1.1;*>
v.sa.l.y.soeos.vs.ar.okees.o.d.soefchees.l.g.sos.okey.defo.f.o.rkedag.c`h.ofol.sas.ddal.yty.s.y.daiir.otey.dc`hdy.dzals.oty.feheey.a.s.ofaiin.dal.karody.v.s.okeey.darag.qokar.okal.okal.d.o.l.c`hkeal.dydchs.o.k.c`hes.saiin.

(18-07-2017, 04:02 PM)Vonologia Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Addendum:

In trying to clean up a Wheel 1 (EVA) transcription, I am having major problems determining the "number of cells" so that
I can align the geometry with the other wheels. 51, of course, works better with 68 (Wheel 3, Wheel 1 + Wheel 2) because it is 3/4 the whole, 24*2, etc. However, 52 (weeks) or 53 does not, and implies that this may not be a code wheel at all. I have combined the H,V, and U transcriptions with my own and Davidsch You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., but would like to perhaps come to a conclusion once and for all what the reasonably astute count is for Wheel 1 of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -- all opinions welcome.

Please note that a) for this, the count is more important than the transcription, but b) the only EVA convention that will
look unfamiliar is the substitution of c`h for sh. This is simply a different way of building the glyphs in a typeface to encompass
different accents. This gives a count of 53 (i.e. not ideal). Also, most references to EVA-k could easily be interpreted to EVA-z, but are listed as EVA-k, which has been the tradition. If any of you have an interest in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and you have 15 minutes...please compare/contrast.

<f57v.R1.1;*>
v.sa.l.y.soeos.vs.ar.okees.o.d.soefchees.l.g.sos.okey.defo.f.o.rkedag.c`h.ofol.sas.ddal.yty.s.y.daiir.otey.dc`hdy.dzals.oty.feheey.a.s.ofaiin.dal.karody.v.s.okeey.darag.qokar.okal.okal.d.o.l.c`hkeal.dydchs.o.k.c`hes.saiin.

Not everyone at once, now!

Hi Vonologia,
I'd say I mostly agree with the count you made, but I'm not really sure of my own count:
To me, the problematic part is the single character "cells". For some reason, the scribe has often made the spaces between them smaller than the spaces between the multi-character "vords", which makes counting difficult.
For example, is the initial sequence v.sa.l.y or v.saly ? I'm inclined to agree with you that there are four "cells" there but... why has the scribe made the spaces between them so small?
Single characters are not so frequent in the rest of the Voynich text, so I wonder what makes them so frequent on this folio...
For instance, according to Voynichese.com (their count differs from yours somewhat), l as a standalone occurs only 58 times in the entire manuscript, but 11 times on this page, while standalone k occurs 13 times in the Voynich, of which a full 10 are on this folio.

Hey;

You can't tell me this does not fit in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Erecole Este I coin!





And Isabella Este bust:

(11-08-2017, 07:39 AM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi Vonologia,
I'd say I mostly agree with the count you made, but I'm not really sure of my own count:
To me, the problematic part is the single character "cells". For some reason, the scribe has often made the spaces between them smaller than the spaces between the multi-character "vords", which makes counting difficult.
For example, is the initial sequence v.sa.l.y or v.saly ? I'm inclined to agree with you that there are four "cells" there but... why has the scribe made the spaces between them so small?
Single characters are not so frequent in the rest of the Voynich text, so I wonder what makes them so frequent on this folio...
For instance, according to Voynichese.com (their count differs from yours somewhat), l as a standalone occurs only 58 times in the entire manuscript, but 11 times on this page, while standalone k occurs 13 times in the Voynich, of which a full 10 are on this folio.

Those are some interesting notes which I am inclined to use to "word backwards." In other words, maybe test all the possible geometries and then perhaps the count will describe itself in a different manner. With respect to the preponderance of single characters in 57v while "not so much" in the general text, for now I am ascribing this to the creation of vords or codes as opposed to the encoding of a set of glyphs, if that makes any sense at all. In other words (no pun intended), inwards to outwards (or visa versa), using the four wheels, can we make vords? Even if it is a voyelle, can we make assignable vords? The easy computer test would be to create all the combinations possible using all four wheels and comparing that to a transcription; I am not there yet. That would be about 4 million combinations, plus or minus. And if four wheels reduces to three, lower that to 256,000 combinations, plus or minus.

An interesting observation which many have of course seen is that two of the central characters are backwards -- in other words, are they mirrored? Do we turn two of the wheels "backwards?" (Horizontal flip) Which two? Doing this in Photoshop actually changes the perspective of the alignment rather quickly, making it even more confusing. For now, not willing to double the variables.

(16-08-2017, 04:14 AM)coded Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hey;

You can't tell me this does not fit in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Erecole Este I coin!





And Isabella Este bust:

For me, too late on the timeline. 1431. Others may think differently.

Nick Pelling had a recent blog post regarding f57v, located here.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Here is a photo of my model -- which obviously describes a different interpretation. Not an academic,
so it would be difficult to describe all the decisions made, but the most confusing thing about these wheels
is the 'count' -- the number of cells per wheel. I have never seen the 'count' he shows for Wheel 1 listed in any transcription. Obviously, the 'tables' are aligned in this photo, to create the '17's' and align with the 'money shot' guy. Some of these other 'colors' also align interestingly and I have described a few previously.

Oh, that's nicer than mine! Quite a bit nicer than mine.

I color-coded my VMS transcript, but I never thought to color-code the wheel page when I created my rotating model. I like that one better.  


I notice it's secured with a push-pin. I use a paperclip poked through so that the flat part of the clip holds the whole thing together so it can be rotated freely in one's lap without the pieces shifting or coming apart. It works pretty well.

(03-09-2017, 12:41 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Oh, that's nicer than mine! Quite a bit nicer than mine.

I color-coded my VMS transcript, but I never thought to color-code the wheel page when I created my rotating model. I like that one better.  


I notice it's secured with a push-pin. I use a paperclip poked through so that the flat part of the clip holds the whole thing together so it can be rotated freely in one's lap without the pieces shifting or coming apart. It works pretty well.

The only way You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. will be solved is with "failure." Don't be afraid to fail. It is merely a stage. I am destroyed until the new year with a specific project, but I would like to check into these 250,000 probabilities on this group of discs by using the "count" as the primary variable to find the right geometry. Mine is 33x35x68x51? here? Can't remember. The point is, 68 log 4 is 21 million options. It's fewer than that.