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f67v1 The four Seasons

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• f67v1 The four Seasons

• RE: f67v1 The four Seasons

  Diane > 30-09-2016, 12:12 PM

  Thomas,
  I should be pleasantly surprised if the labels turned out to be in Latin.  As far as I'm aware, the Latins didn't know Crux as such in the early fifteenth century, although someone might have just thought it looked like a cross.  It isn't visible in the northern hemisphere, and classical astronomy had seen it as part of the Centaur's area of the sky.
  
  Dante refers to "four holy stars' - and many think he'd access to information about the southern skies.
  
  Also the equation of the golden star in the tail of Scorpius with the character of the scribe (either in the Islamic or the non-Islamic tradition) was unknown to Europe.
  
  I've never found such an image for the three head-stars in Orion in Europe, either.
  
  In fact, what we see in that folio is someone book-learned about the lunar mansions system, but "wrong" in terms of conventions and habits among those to whom the system was native.
  
  Those four (astronomical) details are additions later than the originals, but I daresay made no later than the paint in Beinecke MS 408.
  
  I've often wondered if we aren't seeing here the hand of a certain "Master Lemon of Genoa" .. but that's probably a digression, sorry.

• RE: f67v1 The four Seasons

  ThomasCoon > 30-09-2016, 02:27 PM

  Diane, that's highly interesting information - I don't know much about imagery (I took one art history course in college) so these very useful details often escape my notice. I can tell you, though, that I've often used the information in your blog (especially this page - 67v1) to get a possible crib. Here was one attempt earlier this month - it didn't end up working out, but I was excited when I saw "AUST----US"
  
  
  
  So, people are using your work in their experiments  

• RE: f67v1 The four Seasons

  Diane > 01-10-2016, 08:16 AM

  Thomas,
  Thank you so much for letting me know that. 
  
  If I might make a suggestion:-
   Rather than trying for the standard 'book-style" vocabulary, it might be wiser to look for examples of regional and medieval dialects. 
  
  For example, here is a wind-wheel inscribed with names in the the dialect of Provence, and which I described in this post:
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  There are also proverbial sayings or saws which might be added, given the constant correlations made in the imagery between astronomical and other systems of information.
  
  e.g. for the south, the Biblical sentence - and Christian culture was the basis for all Latin Europe's culture, not just people whose profession was the church:
  Thus: "out of the heder cometh the tempest" (Job 37:9) where 'heder' is translated [astronomical] 'Chambers of the South'. 
  
  Schiaparelli equates "heder" with the "hadre theman"  of Job 9:9.  
  
  So those might be proverbial sayings or terms that would be known to Latins and to non-Latins in fourteenth and fifteenth-century Europe. Aramaic was a language in current use in mainland Europe too, chiefly among the Jews.
  
  (It is sometimes difficult to explain to modern, urban, secular westerners why a passage from the bible would be common currency in medieval Europe, but that's another issue).
  
  G. Schiaparelli's work, Astronomy in the Old Testament, was published at the beginning of the twentieth century, but remains the standard study and is still in print.
  
  Then again, you have glossaries of nautical terms and slang.. and that's not to mention the many regional languages and dialects which may be relevant here - such as the dialects of southern Arabia, Soqotra etc.
  
  (Glad the writtten part of the text isn't my problem!)
  
  
  
  
  
  

• RE: f67v1 The four Seasons

  ThomasCoon > 02-10-2016, 02:44 AM

  Those are good points, Diane!   Thank you - I have to keep my mind open more for non-standard, non-"book-style" vocabulary. You appreciate how big a problem the written part is!

• RE: f67v1 The four Seasons

  Anton > 27-11-2016, 12:19 AM

  Can't find if we do have another thread about this folio.
  
  I would like to drop here a reference to two "four winds charts" from MS 2760, Biblioteca Nazionale Marciana, Venice, which Koen recently brought to attention in another thread. See folios 2r and 2v.
  
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• RE: f67v1 The four Seasons

  Davidsch > 28-11-2016, 03:06 PM

  Thomascoon: EXCELLENT!
  
  In the bands encircling the busts, the winds’ Latin names, with the Greek names given in the narrower, uncolored ring within. Beginning at the left (the North) and moving clockwise: 
  
  “Septentrio vel Aparctias;” “Aquilo vel Boreas;” “Vulturnus vel Calcias”; “Subsolanus vel Apeliotes;” “Eurus vel;” “Euroauster;” “Auster vel Nothus;” “Austro vel” (for “Austroafricus”); “Affricus vel Lyps;” Zephirus vel Favonius;” “Chorus vel Argystes;” “Circius vel Tracias” (for “Thracias”), or “Septentrio or Aparctias;” “Aquilo or Boreas;” “Vulturnus or Calcias;” “Subsolanus or Apheliotes;” “Eurus or;” “Euroaster;” “Auster or Nothus;” “Austro or;” “Affricus or Lyps;” “Zephirus or Favonius;” “Chorus or Argystes;” “Circius or Tracias.”
  
  source: Title: Diagram (rota) of the winds.
  
  
  
  As already cited different other pages: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
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  Also other folio's mention these names.
  
  F2r:
  In the earth at center: “Asia,” “Europa,” “Affrica.” In the outer ring, beginning at the left (North), the names of the winds in colored capitals: “Septentrio” (North), “Aquilo,” “Vulturnus,” “Subsolanus” (East), “Eurus,” “Euroauster,” “Auster” (South), Euronothus,” “Affricus,” Zephirus” (West), “Chorus,” “Circius.” In the twelve corresponding sectors, beginning at left (North), the characterizations of each wind: etc.
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