(06-06-2018, 05:41 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe, simply, the scribe used familiar shapes to him when he wrote the string of symbols and numbers that form the text. Why 9 is (y) or a scribal abbreviation? Why is not a number? I think is a number, like 8. The numbers 8 y 9 are frequently in the endings of the Voynich and in others positions in the string of glyphs. In my opinion they mark the location of the stars, wich can be located in the eighth or the ninth sphere or in both due to the precession of equinoxes.
It is similar to Latin scribal conventions because of the way it is
shaped AND
positioned and, for the record, many of the scribal conventions
are based on number shapes. In the old Carolingian documents, one sees Indic-Arabic shapes used for scribal abbreviations as follows:
1 (the early slightly wiggle form of 1) is used for ir/er/re/ri, 2 is used for ur/tur, 3 is used for rem, round-4 is used (usually superscripted) but I forget the meaning because it didn't get used for long, 9 was used for con/com/us/um even after the printing press was invented, zero or omicron was used for grade/degree. It was a clever system in the sense that Indic-Arabic numerals were not in general use in documents in this early period and thus using them as scribal notations helped distinguish them from the regular text.
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So, to get to your question, why could it not be a number in the VMS? It could. I KEEP POINTING OUT THAT SHAPE AND MEANING ARE NOT THE SAME THING. When I say it is a scribal convention I AM TALKING ABOUT SHAPE, NOT MEANING.
Sorry, but I'm
really tired of people twisting my words. EVERY time I say the shapes are Latin, two or three people come along and tell me I said the language was Latin or that the scribal conventions indicate Latin language. NO, I have NEVER said the language is Latin (it might be, it might not). I said the SHAPES are Latin. The language could be anything (including nonsense).
The same goes for scribal conventions. THE SHAPES are scribal conventions. I did not say the numbers were letters, or the letters were numbers or any other combination. I am talking about SHAPES. The MEANING could be anything: language, numbers, symbols. I've never said it could not be numbers (in fact I've blogged about VMS shapes that resemble numbers and I've also said that many Voynich solutions NEGLECT the possibility of numbers).
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Now, to SPECIFICALLY answer your question "Why 9 is (y) or a scribal abbreviation? Why is not a number? I think is a number, like 8."
The 9 glyph is not just shaped like a scribal abbreviation, it is POSITIONED in the VMS tokens in the same way as 9 glyphs are positioned in Latin scribal abbreviations. It would be difficult to devise a system that uses a number as an astrological property OR as a stellar coordinate that ALWAYS behaves position-wise like a Latin scribal abbreviation. It's not impossible, but it would be devilishly difficult—astronomical references, conventions, and coordinates have to be in the right position to make any kind of mathematical sense and even if it were something simpler, like astrological properties (which may in fact be in the VMS) it still would not behave like EVA-9 does in the VMS.
EVA-y (9) does not follow astronomical conventions in the VMS in terms of
where it appears in tokens. I have read through many many medieval astrological/astronomical manuscripts on the Web and have made note of how numbers are used in the main text, in charts, in calendars, and I have never seen the numbers positioned like EVA-y but almost every medieval manuscript in a western language includes EVA-y as a scribal abbreviation mostly at the ends of words, sometimes at the beginnings of words and occasionally in the middle.
That does not necessarily mean EVA-y IS a scribal abbreviation (it might be, it might not), other possibilities are null, marker, or modifier, BUT it does not behave like a number behaves in astronomical/astrological documents. If you can decipher some of these as numbers into coherent information OR provide evidence of astrological notations that follow Latin scribal conventions in terms of position, then you might have an argument, but I think it would be very difficult to find astrology-related numbers positioned as they are in the VMS.
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I think it's quite possible that ancient astrological properties are expressed in some way in the VMS (I think a lot of properties might be codified in the VMS) but not the way you are suggesting. I think it's a mistake to assume the 9 shape is the number 9 without taking into consideration the way it positions itself within tokens (in the same way 9 is used in textual manuscripts).