MarcoP > 10-09-2016, 08:23 AM
(09-09-2016, 11:04 PM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(09-09-2016, 03:46 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(09-09-2016, 02:43 PM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.1) If you are searching for a natural language for Voynichese and believe the VMS spaces are true, you are almost certainly limited to agglutinative and polysynthetic languages because of the "morphology" of Voynich words (see the <qot> forms). This eliminates most of the languages in Europe.I see your point. This seems to be consistent with where some linguistic research about the ms is going.
Interesting, Marco; could you tell me which researchers think this?
ThomasCoon > 15-09-2016, 02:28 AM
-JKP- > 15-09-2016, 06:23 AM
(15-09-2016, 02:28 AM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hey all, I've been trying to see if I could prove that spaces (as written) in the VMS are fake. I found some things which may indicate patterns across words, but I submit the images for your review:
<otchordy> split two different ways on the same page?
<otchordy> and <opchordy> in the text as 1, 2, or 3 words:
And then there is this beauty, where <kydaiin> repeats, but the combinations of <ch-ky> and <sh-ky> are also interesting:
Hope this might catch your interest!
ThomasCoon > 15-09-2016, 03:29 PM
Quote:Vords that behave as suffixes will frequently appear after many of the same units with a space in between. In other words, if you have something like abcdefg and "fg" is a frequent suffix, then it's also common to find abcde fg with a space in between. This suggests that some spaces may be contrived but even if they are, it doesn't mean all units necessarily behave this way.
Quote:Thomas, this is a significantly condensed version because there's no way to explain any of this with so few words and I had hoped to write up the long version , with charts, arrows, balloons, and everything else that's required to explain it properly (along with some of my ideas of what some of the vords mean), but there's a lot of interest in this now so there you go. I can't sit on it forever.
-JKP- > 15-09-2016, 06:38 PM
Wladimir D > 15-09-2016, 08:34 PM
-JKP- > 15-09-2016, 08:41 PM
ThomasCoon > 16-09-2016, 01:23 AM
(15-09-2016, 06:38 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thomas wrote: I find it highly interesting that you can predict where certain vords will be.
I didn't break out the wine bottle until I was able to predict twelve in a row. It got to the point where I could say, "This will go to the starred-text pages and nowhere else," or "This is a zodiac word," or "This page should have a word starting with __ somewhere in the middle of the second line," or "This will show up on the small-plant pages, probably the leaf section," etc.
It wasn't possible to do this until about 40% of the words had been mapped and, even then, only in a very limited way. After about 60% had been mapped, it was easier to see the patterns, and to appreciate how much work went into laying down the text. But, I still haven't broken out the champagne because I only have an inkling of what some of them mean. Finding them and predicting them is a big step, but it's not a translation.
Quote:In terms of philosophy... I did the same thing most people do when I first encountered the VMS. I tried applying different languages. I'm familiar enough with western languages and some of the Asian languages (Korean, Chinese, Japanese) to approach it this way and noticed that ancient Mediterranean languages, especially the Semitic ones, a few old eastern European languages, and Asian languages like Boa, fit the structure of the VMS better than most western European languages. But somewhere along the way I realized this might be an unproductive way to approach it. Not only have many tried, but there are thousands of languages (including extinct ones) and it could take forever to figure out which one it is, especially if the spaces (or some of them) are fake.
So I took a different road. I decided, why not just learn Voynichese? If it does turn out to be a natural language, it will become evident. If it's a constructed language, this will be evident also. The advantage of learning Voynichese, rather than cherry-picking languages and trying to impose them on the text, is that it encompasses both possibilities (and a few others) within the same methodology.
farmerjohn > 16-09-2016, 07:45 AM
Anton > 16-09-2016, 10:26 AM