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• Rosettes as a ... magic altar

• RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar

  JustAnotherTheory > 01-10-2026, 06:32 PM

  I will note that a prominent feature of (good) forgeries is that they create confusion among experts.

• RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar

  R. Sale > 01-10-2026, 06:45 PM

  I made the same connection of the almadel with the central image of the central rosette. It's a horizontal surface suspended between several supports. It's a strong general, structural similarity that the VMs artist may have borrowed but then made certain changes - like the changes made to "Oresme's" cosmos. The VMs now has six supports instead of four. And any trace of information on the VMs has been covered with random stars. Not only is the scale impossible, but this tends to diminish the indicators of cultural origin. It may not be Christianized but it has been substantially neutralized.
  
  Nevertheless, it's not the item that has been borrowed - it's the idea. It is an altar! There it is, smack-dab in the middle, right where an altar is supposed to be - from an early 15th century hypothetical religious perspective.
  
  There are two quatrefoil patterned markers, top and bottom, associated with the circular text band in the central rosette.

• RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar

  pjburkshire > 01-10-2026, 07:03 PM

  Are you talking about the illustration representing a magic alter or are you talking about the actual calfskin parchment being used as a magic alter?

• RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar

  Rafal > 01-10-2026, 08:33 PM

  By the way, Rosettes are really worn out at the corners, if compared to other pages:
  
  (scan from Beinecke version as Jason Davies version seems to be cleaned a bit):
     
  
  Could it be that some candles or even some heavy holders stood there and kept it on the table so it didn't fly away with a breeze of wind???

• RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar

  Rafal > 01-10-2026, 08:45 PM

  And I have one more hypothesis about contacting the spirits in the Voynich Manuscript.
  
  While reading about Lesser Key of Salomon I noticed this fragment:
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  The Aerial Spirits of Solomon are Demons associated with the four elements who were commanded by the legendary King Solomon. The aerial spirits are both good and evil. They can show anything in the world that is hidden and can fetch, carry, and do anything contained in the four elements of earth, air, water, and fire. They can discover the secrets of anyone, including kings.
  
  The aerial spirits are governed by 31 princes who are aligned to points on a compass. They can be summoned by directing one’s self to their compass position. The princes have dukes and myriad ministering spirits or demons under their command. The princes cannot be summoned by magic unless the magician wears their special seals as a lamen, or pendant, upon the chest. The conjurations of the aerial spirits are given in a grimoire, the Lemegeton, also known as The Lesser Key of Solomon.
  
  They are described in Ars Theurgia Goetia part of Lesser Key of Solomon.
  
  So could this part be about contacting aerial spirits?
  
  
  More to follow 
  
  EDIT: I consider it much less probable than almadel hypothesis but decided it mention it anyway as it could be connected

• RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar

  Jorge_Stolfi > Yesterday, 10:32 AM

  (01-10-2026, 12:25 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As you may know from my previous posts I like the idea that Voynich Manuscript was once a bunch of loose pages

  
  I imagine that books were usually copied onto loose bifolios, which were folded, nested, and bound  only after all the text and art was done.   Except for diaries, logs, and other register-type books,of course.  
  
  Writing and drawing onto a bound blank book would be awkward, and fixing some serious mistakes -- like skipping a paragraph while copying -- might have required undoing and re-doing the binding.
  
  If that is the case, then the question is not whether the VMS was once a bunch of loose bifolios, but for how long it was kept in that state before being bound.  
  
  In an "industrial" scriptorium the whole process would probably go from blank sheets to bound book in a few months; but I suspect that for the "home-made" VMS it stretched over several years, in fits and starts.  
  
  I even think that the Author died before the intended book was finished, and the bifolios were bound by his heir.  Which would make the incorrect nesting of Bio more understandable.
  
  Writing a book on loose bifolios of course requires writing their their pages in a non-trivial order.  I wonder whether the VMS Scribe was smart enough to figure that out.  It would not make much difference for the Herbal and Pharma sections, but that may be why the Astro/Zodiac quires are single un-nested bifolios, and why the Bio section has those known nesting errors.
  
  All the best, --stolfi

• RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar

  Rafal > Yesterday, 11:21 AM

  Quote:If that is the case, then the question is not whether the VMS was once a bunch of loose bifolios, but for how long it was kept in that state before being bound.

  
  We could actually check it empirically by carbon dating the threads making the binding. They are organic so it is possible. Maybe it will happen one day

• RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar

  gerrydelasel > Yesterday, 11:25 AM

  (Yesterday, 10:32 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I even think that the Author died before the intended book was finished, and the bifolios were bound by his heir.
  Writing a book on loose bifolios of course requires writing their their pages in a non-trivial order. 

  
  Why would you assume the author intended it to be bound?

• RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar

  Rafal > Yesterday, 11:33 AM

  And I would like to show you some more possibly relevant imagery.
  
  First we have this manuscript: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  It comes from the 15th century from Germany so it seems to belong to the same time and place as Voynich Manuscript.
  I doesn't have a close match to Rosettes but it has a lot of sigils and circular magical diagrams:
  
     
  
  So sigils were known in Germany when VM was created.
  
  Also I have seen a picture bit similar to Rosettes in Book of Soyga by John Dee himself.
  Unfortunately original manuscripts are not available online so I had to use this:
  
     

• RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar

  nablator > 11 hours ago

  (Yesterday, 11:33 AM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I doesn't have a close match to Rosettes but it has a lot of sigils and circular magical diagrams:

  
  Sigils and magical writing with the typical "caractères à lunettes" in Picatrix and other grimoires seem too different to be related to the VMS.
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