Wladimir D > 11-02-2016, 06:16 AM
Davidsch > 22-02-2016, 03:09 PM
Davidsch > 01-03-2016, 02:34 PM
Quote:ReneZ:
I wonder whether it is possible to create a dictionary, by which each Voynich word can be matched to one plain text word in some language in such a way that the result is a meaningful text in that language. I.e.: can the Voynich MS be translated word for word?
crezac > 13-03-2016, 06:43 PM
(20-08-2015, 08:28 AM)david Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:Is that too many as compared with natural languages?I have no idea. But those four words you quoted are some of the most famous Voynich words out there.
I also don't know how this compares to other handcopied manuscripts of the era. It could be a way into resolving the "original or a copy?" question.
Quote:Is not the repetition issue too exaggerated?
I think the issue is not direct repetition, but rather many similar words repeated, as in Timms pairs and [ah-hem] Jackson sequences, which are not features of written languages.
(08-02-2016, 05:23 PM)Torsten Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@Don
Typical for the VMS are strong rules about character combinations and weak rules for the word order. Both features are the result of the copying process. If the scribe was adding a new element to the text generation process one of two things could happen: A.) He could add the new element into his set of copying rules. In this case it was frequently used and we would see it as a rule. Or B.) he could forget about the new element. In this case the new element is rarely used and it would look like an exception to us.
...
As last glyph 'a' occurs 63 times. Is the existence of 'cheda' therefore an error or is it a valid word?
The bigram 'ya' occurs 22 times. Is the existence of 'dyaiin' therefore an error or is it a valid word?
Whatever the scribe does, for us it always looks like a rule or like an error. But they are the same. There are only too many possibilities for changing a word. It is impossible to use all of them frequently.
@Diane: That something can happen within language doesn't mean that it is typical for language.
-JKP- > 15-03-2016, 08:16 PM
(01-03-2016, 02:34 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.however, this challenge
Quote:ReneZ:
I wonder whether it is possible to create a dictionary, by which each Voynich word can be matched to one plain text word in some language in such a way that the result is a meaningful text in that language. I.e.: can the Voynich MS be translated word for word?
could be possible if we could limit ourselves to certain words.
For example the first 3 or 4 words on every page?
MarcoP > 04-09-2017, 02:46 PM
(19-08-2015, 11:15 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I counted 114 unique words that can be repeated. It is only 1,7% of the total of 6818 unique words. Is that too many as compared with natural languages?
Is not the repetition issue too exaggerated?
Koen G > 04-09-2017, 05:41 PM
ReneZ > 04-09-2017, 06:17 PM
(04-09-2017, 05:41 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The wiki has a huge amount of examples from many language families: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I'm not saying that it must be one of the languages listed in the wiki of course.
[...]
It may be interesting to see if we can check a text in one of the listed languages just to get an idea. Too bad nobody on the forum can understand these.
MarcoP > 04-09-2017, 06:28 PM
(04-09-2017, 05:41 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Wonderful work again, Marco.
As you indicate, it seems clear that in literary language (in the languages we are familiar with) we have to count on poetic license to get this many duplications
(04-09-2017, 05:41 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Note that in a pre-modern setting, there were few spelling rules, so in theory it doesn't matter whether these words are written as one or two words. For example if [pin] means chair and [pinpin] means chairs, then the spelling of the plural could be "pinpin" or "pin pin" depending on scribal preferences.
The wiki has a huge amount of examples from many language families: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(04-09-2017, 05:41 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It may be interesting to see if we can check a text in one of the listed languages just to get an idea. Too bad nobody on the forum can understand these.
(04-09-2017, 05:41 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Alternatively of course, the text type (scientific/practical/instructional?) might cause the reduplication in Voynichese. If the contents describe various procedures, you can get reduplication which would lack elegance in a literary text. But I can't think of a good concrete example at the moment. Something like directions for example: "to reach the church, you go left, left and then right". But I'd think that the first option (linguistic process) might be more likely.
Koen G > 05-09-2017, 09:06 AM
(04-09-2017, 06:17 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Edit (addition): however, very inconveniently, Thai does not use spaces to separate words. They are just strung together. So, while it would be very easy to count the reduplications in a text, it is not easy to automatically count the different words...