nablator > 01-03-2023, 02:35 PM
(01-03-2023, 01:52 PM)Arichichi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Can someone tell me what are the good reasons to believe that what was common at the time of writing gives actual clues to decode what is uncommon such as Voynichese?There aren't any. In the very limited common glyph set of Voynichese it would be impossible to include ten symbols exclusively for numbers anyway.
Quote:What are the necessary hypothesis that one needs to take into consideration to ease accepting such a point of view?The reduplicated words are among the most frequent. You can test your hypothesis by checking if they appear significantly more in close proximity to each other and in some sections, because they would typically appear in recipes.
pfeaster > 01-03-2023, 03:20 PM
(28-02-2023, 07:43 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Some of them (in descending order according to the reoccurrence as sequential repetitions in the text):
daiin daiin (25)
qokedy qokedy (11)
<...>
Arichichi > 01-03-2023, 04:53 PM
(01-03-2023, 03:20 PM)pfeaster Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(28-02-2023, 07:43 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Some of them (in descending order according to the reoccurrence as sequential repetitions in the text):
daiin daiin (25)
qokedy qokedy (11)
<...>
I know this list is meant to be representative ("some of them") rather than exhaustive, but since Arichichi has been doing some further analysis using it, it's probably also worth citing "chol chol" and "qokeedy qokeedy" as especially common word repetitions. Exact counts will vary depending on transcription and criteria.
Just a couple other observations, in case they suggest anything in this context:
....
Searcher > 01-03-2023, 06:54 PM
(01-03-2023, 01:06 PM)Arichichi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think there are reasons to believe that a subset of the repeating patterns may lead to finding the numbers through studying how Benford's law can be applied to the statistical occurrence of each of the words.I'm not sure how it will work practically, but try. So what do you think another word doublings with another suffixes mean?
My guess for now is Prefix={k,ok,qok,t,ot,qot,q,oq,qoq} and suffix={dy,in,ey} may reveal numbers as well as genders
Searcher > 01-03-2023, 07:16 PM
(01-03-2023, 03:20 PM)pfeaster Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(2) Exact-word repetitions are found more often in the middle of lines rather than at (or across) their boundaries, consistent with Emma's hypothesis about line-start and line-end transformations -- although doubled words sometimes appear at the beginning or end of a line. Marco presents some useful statistics about this earlier in the current thread. Cases of three or more exact-word repetitions in a row are always in the middle of the line and never touch one or the other edge.I suggested that such repetitions, multiplied words are garbage in the text, that is, in the case of daiin daiin or okedy okedy okedy okedy, you need to leave only one word, and ignore its repetition as empty words made for confusion. Although it can be assumed that they also have a certain function, for example, shifting the next word to a certain position in the text, that is, in the line okedy otedy when adding garbage words to the line (for example, okedy okedy okedy okedy otedy), otedy will appear in fifth position instead of the second. Or these repetitions may have another function.
Arichichi > 01-03-2023, 07:22 PM
R. Sale > 01-03-2023, 08:08 PM
Searcher > 01-03-2023, 08:39 PM
(01-03-2023, 08:08 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.How do the vord pairings in Post 93 play out against the various scribal hands?? Do the 25 "daiin daiin" parings occur more or less throughout the VMs text, or are they localized to certain scribes or to certain parts of the VMs text? And what about some of the others with frequent repetition as well?I'm sorry, I need to correct myself. It is my typo, daiin daiin = 15 occurances, not 25.
nablator > 01-03-2023, 09:05 PM
Ahmet Ardıç > 01-03-2023, 09:06 PM
(01-03-2023, 01:52 AM)Arichichi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@Anton
[Interestingly, in the message before your last one, I rearranged the values unto prefix suffix pairs and it seems
That there are 10 prefixes and 10 suffixes. The model may predict words that aren't in the list, so it needs to be tested whether words that don't appear in the list and are predicted are actually part of the language or not.]