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Aries Design: Truly Aries, or actually based on Capricorn?
- Aries Design: Truly Aries, or actually based on Capricorn?
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Aries Design: Truly Aries, or actually based on Capricorn?
eggyk > 29-07-2026, 09:00 PM
Hello all,
As part of the ongoing zodiac rating/collection project, approximately 230 depictions of Aries (from ~160 sources) have been logged in order to compare them to the VMS Aries symbols. Exciting or interesting examples are... rather scarce.
There are multiple aspects of the VMS symbols that are simply plain missing in the vast majority of Aries depictions. The horns are almost never curved correctly, the body type is more often short and stubby, the tail is often far too long, and the animal is almost never interested in a tree or plant.
So.. is the VMS aries depiction simply rare?
The Depiction (eating a tree on a rocky slope)
Many of you may be familiar with this example from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
Well, this depiction (of a creature reaching up onto a tree, or reaching higher, rocky ground) is a semi-common Capricorn depiction. Not Aries. Here are a whole bunch of examples i've come across so far:
This is perhaps the best evidence that VMS aries is actually inspired by a depiction of capricorn: the depiction of a creature on a rocky slope, trying to reach for a tree or high ground.
How can it be Capricorn? It's between Pisces and Taurus!
Examples of this happening
So far, I have come across 2 examples that demonstrate instances where this mix-up / mixing of styles happened:
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This example (that I just mentioned above) is in the Aries section, but is actually based on capricorn. The goat beard gives this away:
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This example has aries and capricorn mixed-up: The capricorn is depicted in march, and aries is depicted in december:
This was not a binding error; these depictions were indeed on the verso of those months.
So interestingly, the two examples with this capricorn depiction displayed in the "aries section" seem to have different reasons for having happened. One is seemingly a mistake, and the other seems to have been a conscious choice to use the typical capricorn depiction for aries.
Similar designs for aries and capricorns within manuscripts
Quite often, the designs of Aries and Capricorn are rather similar within the same manuscript. Even in cases that capricorn is a sea-goat, the mammal-half is often similar to the Aries within that manuscript. Here are a couple of examples, but there are many more:
Other attributes that suggest a capricorn inspired design
The horns - Horns on Aries entries are very often curled, twisted and bobbly. Capricorn horns are often smooth (not always), and generally a longer version of the shape found in the VMS.
The tail - Tails are more often small tufts on the capricorn designs, similar to the VMS. The tails on aries designs is more often far longer.
The body - Capricorns are generally depicted as relatively slim creatures with longer legs, as opposed to the common fluffy, poofy build found in many Aries.
Common Capricorn attributes missing in the VMS
The Beard - Capricorns are normally depicted with a little goat beard, which is missing in both depictions found in the VMS. However, this is not a universal feature; there's already an example of a beardless example above in this post. But I looked through quickly and found a few:
What I'm suggesting
I believe that the design for Aries may have been inspired by a capricorn depiction. This does not necessarily mean that the intended sign IS capricorn, only that the VMS depiction of Aries was inspired by it. Frankly, the only reason we assume this to be an Aries design is its location between Pisces and Taurus. If we had only these VMS pages in isolation, without Pisces and Taurus, the logical conclusion would not be that they are Aries at all. It would be that they are Capricorn.
The next steps to confirm and research this would be to incorporate capricorn depictions into the rating spreadsheets, rating them alongside the Aries examples to gauge how well they score. This depiction of capricorn -if relevant- is a lead that may produce some valuable hints on where the VMS artist was from, or at least hints on where they were likely not from. My initial tests have shown that mammal capricorns rate quite highly on average, but I'm yet to finalise criteria that would rate them effectively and fairly (and punish them for their capricorn features, like beards).
Another step is simply to add more manuscripts to the lists, but that takes time
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RE: Aries Design: Truly Aries, or actually based on Capricorn?
denty > 29-07-2026, 09:11 PM
I have seen Aries depicted as a goat before, on a charm. I think given the variations in both sheep and goats, that those not involved with them can sometime mix them up? But the Voynich authors seems to like ambiguity, so maybe they did it on purpose. -
RE: Aries Design: Truly Aries, or actually based on Capricorn?
ololololo > 29-07-2026, 09:39 PM
(29-07-2026, 09:11 PM)denty Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have seen Aries depicted as a goat before, on a charm. I think given the variations in both sheep and goats, that those not involved with them can sometime mix them up? But the Voynich authors seems to like ambiguity, so maybe they did it on purpose.
They may have copied from the same drawing, but they decided to make Capricorn green and Aries white.
The authors of VMS were very creative, but they didn't have the necessary resources... -
RE: Aries Design: Truly Aries, or actually based on Capricorn?
Aga Tentakulus > 29-07-2026, 10:22 PM
Various types.
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RE: Aries Design: Truly Aries, or actually based on Capricorn?
R. Sale > 29-07-2026, 10:49 PM
Aries is a ram that sometimes looks more like a goat.
Capricorn is a sea-goat that is sometimes more like an ibex. It's the horns.
The greater similarity is between the goat of Aries and the ibex of Capricorn.
Artists may repeat certain themes in their illustrations, but each representation is different.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Aries Design: Truly Aries, or actually based on Capricorn?
Linda > 30-07-2026, 12:06 AM
(29-07-2026, 10:22 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Various types.
Can you give more details? I would believe your information far more than the AI stuff. Was there a binomial name, ie recognized species? There is still a type of Alpenschaaf, although it may not be the same, hard to compare photos at different times of year.
AI Overview
The term "Alpenschaaf" (Alpine sheep) usually refers to older, traditional regional sheep breeds of the Alps rather than a single unified wild species.While "Alpenschaaf" as a general category is not extinct—and modern umbrella terms like the Weisses Alpenschaf (White Alpine Sheep) remain common—certain historic localized alpine sheep strains saw sharp declines or disappeared during the shifts in agricultural policy in the early 20th century.A notable parallel often discussed around this specific timeframe is the black, horned Lötschentaler sheep (Lötschentaler Schaf) of Switzerland. Agricultural records and livestock censuses—such as the one in 1920—documented roughly 1,439 individuals of this distinct regional strain remaining, but changing agricultural breeding policies and preferences through the first half of the 20th century ultimately led to the strain's disappearance from its native valley, leaving room for other modern breeds
It said where the info came from but that and the AIOverview don't actually copy even if you highlight them along with the rest -
RE: Aries Design: Truly Aries, or actually based on Capricorn?
Koen G > 30-07-2026, 12:20 AM
As we talked about, I think this is definitely worth doing, and the results well be interesting. But we currently don't know yet what those results will be, so it's important to keep in mind that all outcomes are equally relevant: more like Aries, more like Capricorn, or a strange mix of both.
As you say, the beard should be included, it's a very easy way to account for missing Capricorn attributes. The second one I would include is something like "horn length". The VM animal's horns are very short and bend quite a bit over that range, kind of like the white tips of fingernails when they grow. But I don't know the best way to judge this objectively. -
RE: Aries Design: Truly Aries, or actually based on Capricorn?
Jorge_Stolfi > 30-07-2026, 02:18 AM
(29-07-2026, 09:00 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The Depiction (eating a tree on a rocky slope)
Well, this depiction (of a creature reaching up onto a tree, or reaching higher, rocky ground) is a semi-common Capricorn depiction. Not Aries.
Indeed, today I learned that while goats commonly stand on their hind legs to reach leaves of bushes or plants growing on walls, sheep are highly unlikely to ever do so. While goats are described as "browsers", sheep are said to be "grazers".
Thus it seems that some scribes who were familiar with those animals would use this behavior as a visual clue to underscore the animal type, "goat" (Capricorn) or "sheep" (Aries).
However, presumably, even back then there were city kids turned scribes who would not be aware of that piece of zoological knowledge, and thus would just as easily depict Aries rampant and Capricorn statant, as their fancy would blow.
Like the VMS scribe...
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: Aries Design: Truly Aries, or actually based on Capricorn?
eggyk > 30-07-2026, 07:04 AM
(29-07-2026, 10:49 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Capricorn is a sea-goat that is sometimes more like an ibex. It's the horns.
The greater similarity is between the goat of Aries and the ibex of Capricorn.
Artists may repeat certain themes in their illustrations, but each representation is different.
Based on the manuscripts i've come across so far, capricorn was more commonly depicted as a mountain goat than as a sea-goat. When I was testing this a couple of days ago, it was around a 65%-35% split. Although that is the data from across europe at large; I have not measured those ratios per region.
(30-07-2026, 12:20 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As we talked about, I think this is definitely worth doing, and the results well be interesting. But we currently don't know yet what those results will be, so it's important to keep in mind that all outcomes are equally relevant: more like Aries, more like Capricorn, or a strange mix of both.
Of course, even if the end result of testing this is "Capricorns do not really match the VMS", I would be happy to accept that. I don't think that will be the case, but even clarifying that will be worth doing.
The really interesting aspect of this for me personally isn't really the specifics of the animal design, but rather the depiction of said animal: eating a tree on a rocky slope. It's exceedingly rare for aries depictions - with the only known example being itself a strange mix of aries and capricorn - yet it is common for a capricorn goat to be depicted that way.