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The o's in VMS
- The o's in VMS
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The o's in VMS
bvanheu > Today, 02:11 AM
Hi!
I can't help but notice there are different kind of ways O's are drawn in VMS. I always starts my O from the top going counterclockwise. I've exagerated the traits in KolourPaint to show the starting point and direction. There doesn't seem to be a pattern (e.g. whole page written with O from bottom). The most common O seems to be starting from the top.
Starting from the top
Starting from bottom
In two quill traits
These could be EVA a though?
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RE: The o's in VMS
Jorge_Stolfi > Today, 04:34 AM
(Today, 02:11 AM)bvanheu Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I can't help but notice there are different kind of ways O's are drawn in VMS. I always starts my O from the top going counterclockwise.
In order to leave a bold trace when writing with a quill, you must apply some pressure so that the two legs of the point get spread apart, allowing the ink to flow to the tip. In some places, when the quill was about to run out of ink, you can see the two parallel traces left by the two legs.
But in that case you don't want to push the pen, because it may snag on the fibers of the paper or the dimples and bumps of the vellum. If you are right-handed, you want to write the bold strokes in the general direction from N-NW-W to S-SE-E. Thus you should write the "o" with two strokes: the SW half counterclockwise, and the NE half clockwise. Which is what we see in the VMS.
You can write in a "wrong" direction if you reduce the pressure. But that produces a thinner trace; and works only for short strokes, since the tip of the quill will soon run out of ink. On the VMS, the plumes of r, s, n were generally drawn that way -- counterclockwise from bottom to top. The n, in particular, was usually drawn with a single stroke; that is why it often has a round bottom, instead of a sharp corner.
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: The o's in VMS
Linda > Today, 04:44 AM
(Today, 02:11 AM)bvanheu Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi!
...
These could be EVA a though?
Hi!
Some look like o's to me but some do look like a's.
I wonder how much misinterpretation possibilities like these get in the way of being able to properly run diagnostics and models.
You almost have to include ands and ors within the file in order to see what happens in either case, then hopefully see some results that lean more one way than another in order to keep going. -
RE: The o's in VMS
BessAgritianin > Today, 06:15 AM
This is very good observation, and I think it connects to a larger question of how the language was designed.
There are many other symbols which are ambiguous glyphs. Like "P", or "r" or "ch" (EVA) etc..
I believe these variations are not random, but deliberate. They encode additional information which leads to multilayer understanding.
Now, however there is another point in this direction- manuscript may had been copied by different scribes, some of whom were not initiated to understand the subtle rules, but copied mechanically what they see and understand.
This may explain why the text has not been deciphered- we are not just dealing with a code, but a code which had been corrupted by the copyists.
This could also explain why EVA transcription system which tries to map to each symbol fixed set of symbol(s) cannot be sufficient and as a result all the statistics is distorted. -
RE: The o's in VMS
MarcoP > Today, 08:25 AM
Personally, I agree with Jorge: these appear to have all been written with two strokes ("In two quill traits") -
RE: The o's in VMS
ololololo > Today, 10:18 AM
(Today, 06:15 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Now, however there is another point in this direction- manuscript may had been copied by different scribes, some of whom were not initiated to understand the subtle rules, but copied mechanically what they see and understand.
I assume that at least scribe A understood what he was writing.
Let's compare the writing of the letter a by scribe A (Botany) and B (Balneology):
The parts of a (e and i) are close together, and the spelling is quite stable.
Now let's take a look at the Scribe B:
I have underlined the special spellings in red. I can assume that scribe A may have parodied the Latin a to hide the encryption and deceive others. Scribe B was probably simply told how to write this letter, and he simply wrote it as best he could... -
RE: The o's in VMS
bvanheu > 8 hours ago
(Today, 04:34 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(Today, 02:11 AM)bvanheu Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I can't help but notice there are different kind of ways O's are drawn in VMS. I always starts my O from the top going counterclockwise.
In order to leave a bold trace when writing with a quill, you must apply some pressure so that the two legs of the point get spread apart, allowing the ink to flow to the tip. In some places, when the quill was about to run out of ink, you can see the two parallel traces left by the two legs.
But in that case you don't want to push the pen, because it may snag on the fibers of the paper or the dimples and bumps of the vellum. If you are right-handed, you want to write the bold strokes in the general direction from N-NW-W to S-SE-E. Thus you should write the "o" with two strokes: the SW half counterclockwise, and the NE half clockwise. Which is what we see in the VMS.
You can write in a "wrong" direction if you reduce the pressure. But that produces a thinner trace; and works only for short strokes, since the tip of the quill will soon run out of ink. On the VMS, the plumes of r, s, n were generally drawn that way -- counterclockwise from bottom to top. The n, in particular, was usually drawn with a single stroke; that is why it often has a round bottom, instead of a sharp corner.
Thanks!
I am definitely not familiar with writing with a quills and suspected the material or the technique was responsible for these variations.