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Did Voynich manuscript illustrator never see women breasts?

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• Did Voynich manuscript illustrator never see women breasts?

• RE: Did Voynich manuscript illustrator never see women breasts?

  Koen G > 16-07-2026, 09:11 PM

  (14-07-2026, 10:27 AM)Oscroft Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The same observations might suggest the illustrator(s) never saw women's necks, shoulders, elbows, feet...
  
  It's as obvious as day is day that the illustrations are not even remote attempts at anatomical, or any other form of, literal accuracy - just look at the crude brush/quill strokes all over the illustrations.

  
  Very well put. Nobody has a neck, arms flop around like shoulders are made of rubber, and male Gemini's proportions are so off that he might as well be a head with feet.

• RE: Did Voynich manuscript illustrator never see women breasts?

  Jorge_Stolfi > 17-07-2026, 12:10 AM

  (16-07-2026, 09:11 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Very well put. Nobody has a neck, arms flop around like shoulders are made of rubber, and male Gemini's proportions are so off that he might as well be a head with feet.

  
  To be fair, we must keep in mind that those nymphs are small -- about 15 mm from hat to foot. 
  
  But it is evident to me that his skill at drawing them improved enormously and gradually as he worked through the Zodiac section.  Based on that criterion, I would say that the earliest page he drew was Aries 1, f70v1, and continued sequentially from there to Taurus 2, f72r1.  Then he went back and drew Pisces on f70v2+f70v1. Then he continued from Gemini f72r2.  That sequence seems consistent with the improved quality of the nymphs, the decreasing use of tubs, and the switch from 2x15 format to 1x30 format for each sign.
  
  It is possible that he instead started with Pisces, but the result was so bad that after Taurus 1 he washed away the whole Pisces 1.5 page and re-drew it from scratch.  But the sequence above still seems more likely to me.  For one thing, I cannot imagine nymph drawings worse than those of f70v1.
  
  I would even hazard the guess that the first nymph he drew was the 12:00 one in the inner band:
       
  And I have  a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
  
  If one dares to, one may also consider that the BEEEPs sometimes improved the original drawings by the Scribe, sometimes made them worse, and sometimes got them quite wrong.  The pubic hair and certain disconcerting interfemural details, in particular, probably were added by the BEEEPs. 
  
  Anyway, by the time he got to the Bio section, his skill had apparently reached a plateau.  It seems that he figured out a "graphic formula" that worked, and stuck to it to the end.
  
  We see a similar gradual improvement in the Pharma section. As Rene pointed out, the bifolios can be rearranged so that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., with new details being introduced at different moments.
  
  All the best, --stolfi

• RE: Did Voynich manuscript illustrator never see women breasts?

  ololololo > 17-07-2026, 09:57 AM

  (17-07-2026, 12:10 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Based on that criterion, I would say that the earliest page he drew was Aries 1, f70v1, and continued sequentially from there to Taurus 2, f72r1. Then he went back and drew Pisces on f70v2+f70v1.

  The artist's first attempt might have been the little men on f57v

• RE: Did Voynich manuscript illustrator never see women breasts?

  Jorge_Stolfi > 17-07-2026, 06:22 PM

  (17-07-2026, 09:57 AM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (17-07-2026, 12:10 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Based on that criterion, I would say that the earliest page he drew was Aries 1, f70v1, and continued sequentially from there to Taurus 2, f72r1. Then he went back and drew Pisces on f70v2+f70v1.

  The artist's first attempt might have been the little men on f57v

  Sorry, I meant "the first page of the Zodiac section".  I won't guess a sequence for the other sections, except that the scribe surely did Bio after Zodiac, and Pharma before Herbal-A.
  
  All the best, --stolfi.

• RE: Did Voynich manuscript illustrator never see women breasts?

  Pierre Dumont Himself > 17-07-2026, 08:20 PM

  
  
  This is Jesus Christ from the Morgan Library MS M. 801. Are we supposed to believe the artist was an alien who had never seen a human being?

• RE: Did Voynich manuscript illustrator never see women breasts?

  Bernd > 17-07-2026, 08:21 PM

  Jesus Christ!

• RE: Did Voynich manuscript illustrator never see women breasts?

  Bernd > 17-07-2026, 08:43 PM

  I find it very difficult to establish an order for the VM faces. Koen tried here:
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  Here I have shown the similarities between root faces in Pharma (Hand1) and faces in the Cosmo and Astro sections (Hand4). Considering Pharma is very basic and may even pre-date the Herbal pages, I do believe those also pre-date the ugly nymphs in Astro which resemble the Balneo Nymphs and are clearly a later stage. One of the most intriguing features are the eyes. Look at them change between Scribal Hands
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  One might argue that the early Astro persons look much better drawn than the later ones, but i don't think this means a lot. From my own experience as a heinous hobby-artist, I can say that progress isn't linear but has its ups and downs with massive regressions. I believe the VM artist adopted a new style during the Zodiac, while also becoming sloppy and less diligent. Which results in the most heinous nymphs, before they improve in Balneo. But it's likely complex and here I have to agree with Jorge, some Zodiac nymphs look like they have been amended with later Picasso style eyes.

• RE: Did Voynich manuscript illustrator never see women breasts?

  Rafal > 20-07-2026, 02:29 PM

  Quote:But it is evident to me that his skill at drawing them improved enormously and gradually as he worked through the Zodiac section.

  
  My feeling is that he first drew a lot of nymphs and then made some corrections to them.
  
  If you look at the nymphs you may notice that in many cases their right breast (right physically and left on the picture) is darker. I suppose they were added later.
  
  In small number of cases he forgot or didn't care to add this breast, however. I marked such a case for you.
     
  
  When you look at a woman exactly from a profile, she has just one breast visible, right?
  
  
  
  So our artist could follow this rule but then realized that his nymphs aren't exactly shown from profile and so they need the second breast 

• RE: Did Voynich manuscript illustrator never see women breasts?

  nablator > 20-07-2026, 03:56 PM

  (20-07-2026, 02:29 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.When you look at a woman exactly from a profile, she has just one breast visible, right?

  
  We need a "made in Egypt" theory. 
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