- Options
- Login
- Desktop Style
Options
EVA "qo" in 15th century Spanish cipher
- EVA "qo" in 15th century Spanish cipher
-
EVA "qo" in 15th century Spanish cipher
JustAnotherTheory > 10-07-2026, 01:46 PM
Hi y'all. I found two 15th century Spanish cipher documents, which heavily feature the EVA "qo" symbols. Here are a few examples:
The documents are the following:
- Barcelona,Archivo de la Corona de Aragón, Diversos, Sástago, 193 (Lío B), nº 79/58.
- Barcelona,Archivo de la Corona de Aragón, Diversos, Sástago, 193 (Lío B), nº 79/59.
Unfortunately, the rest of the documents do not seem at first glance to bear ressemblance to the VMS. Here is a random example from one of them:
________________________________________
Links to the docs:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - Barcelona,Archivo de la Corona de Aragón, Diversos, Sástago, 193 (Lío B), nº 79/58.
-
RE: EVA "qo" in 15th century Spanish cipher
Jorge_Stolfi > 10-07-2026, 02:42 PM
(10-07-2026, 01:46 PM)JustAnotherTheory Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi y'all. I found two 15th century Spanish cipher documents, which heavily feature the EVA "qo" symbols.
The qo is a complicated enough symbol that the similarity is worth noting. Maybe the Author chose qo for whatever-it-means in Voynchese because he was familiar with that code (or some other code that used similar symbols) and liked that symbol specifically.
But there are other symbols on that page that look like symbols of other languages, like ラ (Japanese KATAKANA LETTER RA), ✂ (BLACK SCISSORS) and ∞ (INFINITY). So the qo may still be just a meaningless coincidence.
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: EVA "qo" in 15th century Spanish cipher
Jimmy123 > 10-07-2026, 03:01 PM
Is this look the same as the "40" in the LSJ51, which is the Syrian encoded correspondence?
In Spain there were Arabic culture. So maybe that's where it comes from? -
RE: EVA "qo" in 15th century Spanish cipher
DG97EEB > 10-07-2026, 03:03 PM
(10-07-2026, 01:46 PM)JustAnotherTheory Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi y'all. I found two 15th century Spanish cipher documents, which heavily feature the EVA "qo" symbols. Here are a few examples:
The documents are the following:
- Barcelona,Archivo de la Corona de Aragón, Diversos, Sástago, 193 (Lío B), nº 79/58.
- Barcelona,Archivo de la Corona de Aragón, Diversos, Sástago, 193 (Lío B), nº 79/59.
Unfortunately, the rest of the documents do not seem at first glance to bear ressemblance to the VMS. Here is a random example from one of them:
________________________________________
Links to the docs:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Funnily enough I was in Barcelona over the weekend and noted the Archives of the Crown of Aragon. I don't think they are fully digitised, but it's one of the top medieval archives in Europe. If I'd been there on a week day if have looked round, but surely worth further investigation... although you'd always hope if someone spotted something obviously Voynich like, they'd say something....
(10-07-2026, 03:01 PM)Jimmy123 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Is this look the same as the "40" in the LSJ51, which is the Syrian encoded correspondence?
In Spain there were Arabic culture. So maybe that's where it comes from?
Almost certainly, I'd say... - Barcelona,Archivo de la Corona de Aragón, Diversos, Sástago, 193 (Lío B), nº 79/58.
-
RE: EVA "qo" in 15th century Spanish cipher
ErinaBee > 10-07-2026, 11:08 PM
In this photo there also appear to be:
20-like symbol as a parallel for qo which looks like 40
the English word "bee"
Fake Katakana, fake Greek, and fake scribal abbreviations.
The similarity is almost certainly a coincidence. No one would seriously argue this is about bees, so who on Earth would assume it's about the Voynich Manuscript? -
RE: EVA "qo" in 15th century Spanish cipher
JustAnotherTheory > 11-07-2026, 08:45 AM
(10-07-2026, 11:08 PM)ErinaBee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The similarity is almost certainly a coincidence. No one would seriously argue this is about bees, so who on Earth would assume it's about the Voynich Manuscript?
For one, because EVA "qo" is exceedingly rare in 1400s manuscripts, but "bee" is very common. -
RE: EVA "qo" in 15th century Spanish cipher
Mark Knowles > 11-07-2026, 12:52 PM
4o or qo is commonly found amongst many 15th century Italian ciphers. The Kingdom of Aragon was heavily involved in Italian politics being in control of Sicily, Sardinia and the Kingdom of Naples.
What is more interesting is the presence of other Voynich glyphs in Italian ciphers of the period. -
RE: EVA "qo" in 15th century Spanish cipher
Stefan Wirtz_2 > 11-07-2026, 01:02 PM
And....?
This is a part of hungarian runes:
![[Image: d0cc3a9ef957a9c5c7d528433914fcef.jpg]](https://i.pinimg.com/1200x/d0/cc/3a/d0cc3a9ef957a9c5c7d528433914fcef.jpg)
Hungarian runes were used from early times until the end of 15th century, then replaced by Latin alphabet variation; they have their origin within old turcic runes, which came from deep central asia. Nothing about spanish or arab at all.
And not a cipher.
Problem with 4 and many other VMS letters is that they appear even too often in other scripts or alphabets and provide not really a hint to VMS. -
RE: EVA "qo" in 15th century Spanish cipher
Stefan Wirtz_2 > 11-07-2026, 09:11 PM
(11-07-2026, 08:43 PM)JustAnotherTheory Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That's a "4".
Well, the old Hungarians used it as a variant of "A". Good enough for me.
(11-07-2026, 08:43 PM)JustAnotherTheory Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Not a "40", much less an EVA "qo".
You are free to combine it with an o, will look the same as in Voynichese folios. No spanish cipher necessary.