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Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1?
- Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1?
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Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1?
ololololo > 28-06-2026, 08:30 PM
I've always suspected that some diagrams are enlarged versions of other diagrams.
So far, I've found one interesting match on two diagrams with f68v.
Let's go through the indirect indicators:
1). The colors are the same (only blue)
2). There is a small star in the center
3). The second diagram has one more line.
4). The left diagram has 8 "rays" (I'm referring to those blue areas), while the right diagram has 16.
5).There is no text above the right diagram. If this is a variant of the left diagram, then there is no need to describe it again.
In general, it seems that the right diagram is the left diagram "enlarged" by two times.
They have a few common words: oteey, chey, dal, and dal is in approximately the same position.
A less obvious example is f69r-f69v, but here there is a decrease.
Both diagrams have a star in the center, but the number of rays is different (f69r - 46, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - 31).
What do you think?
But -
RE: Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1?
Zauriek > 29-06-2026, 06:33 AM
(28-06-2026, 08:30 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.1). The colors are the same (only blue)
Maybe there was no so much color to work with or they had to be concidencially blue? From the perspective of your theory i think it is a good factor to consider.
(28-06-2026, 08:30 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.in general, it seems that the right diagram is the left diagram "enlarged" by two times.
Ah, like a Zoom In. Very interesting! I am lost on how to approach this, good stuff.
(28-06-2026, 08:30 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.They have a few common words: oteey, chey, dal, and dal is in approximately the same position.
Very little incidence to be cribs i think, there should have been more. BUT in the voynich context this is like a crib, i was not expeciting to see repeated words. Very interesting.
I'm lost tho...
(28-06-2026, 08:30 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.A less obvious example is f69r-f69v, but here there is a decrease.
Maybe it was supposed to have the exact number but it made a mistake, the other posibility in this idea is that something changes when zooming in?
----I think is a very cool idea. Nice.
[In this conceptual idea] Maybe the reason why the zoom out have 28 "tubes" and the zoom in has 45 "tubes" is because the zoom out was just a figurative drawing and the real number of lines was the zoom in version. Or the Zoom out has the categories and the zoom in as the sub categories or something like that. -
RE: Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1?
ololololo > 29-06-2026, 09:52 AM
(29-06-2026, 06:33 AM)Zauriek Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe there was no so much color to work with or they had to be concidencially blue?
I really think so. Given that the overall style of the book is "substandarted" (compared to other manuscripts, it seems simpler and more minimalistic in design), this seems plausible. On f69, you can see that the author also uses green. This suggests that he had an abundance of green (presumably for plants) and blue (which is used extensively).
(29-06-2026, 06:33 AM)Zauriek Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Very little incidence to be cribs i think, there should have been more.
These words are also found in other charts, so they may not mean anything in our case.(29-06-2026, 06:33 AM)Zauriek Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.the other posibility in this idea is that something changes when zooming in?
It is unclear how these changes manifest themselves. I could not find any connection other than the superficial resemblance. I also don't understand how the rays are distributed on f69r.
(29-06-2026, 06:33 AM)Zauriek Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe the reason why the zoom out have 28 "tubes" and the zoom in has 45 "tubes" is because the zoom out was just a figurative drawing and the real number of lines was the zoom in version. Or the Zoom out has the categories and the zoom in as the sub categories or something like that.
Everything is possible
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RE: Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1?
Zauriek > 29-06-2026, 10:20 AM
(29-06-2026, 09:52 AM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I also don't understand how the rays are distributed on f69r.
Yup. And why the drawer didn't use a rule or something to draw straight lines, it is a pain to me trying to predict its intention.
(29-06-2026, 09:52 AM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Everything is possible
yea, i went for a tangent there huha. Is like a deduction based on an idea and then one makes another deduction that gets farther and farther into fantasy land, maybe is better not to navigate that far away. But it is Fun, is a guilty pleasure in a way. -
RE: Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1?
ololololo > 29-06-2026, 10:48 AM
(29-06-2026, 10:20 AM)Zauriek Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yup. And why the drawer didn't use a rule or something to draw straight lines, it is a pain to me trying to predict its intention.
Perhaps he was too focused on the upper "bumps" of this figure. However, he used a pair of compasses to draw a circle around a star. -
RE: Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1?
Jorge_Stolfi > 29-06-2026, 01:53 PM
(29-06-2026, 10:48 AM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Perhaps he was too focused on the upper "bumps" of this figure. However, he used a pair of compasses to draw a circle around a star.
He did use a compass with an ink attachment to draw most of the circles of the Zodiac and Cosmo, including the outlines of the islands in the Nine-Islands fold-out. On many of them one can still see the pinprick at the center made by the pivot.
However, the circles often fail to close, and then the two ends run past each other, one mm or so apart, for a few cm. Maybe those defects were caused by the vellum being floppy and wavy, or maybe his compass was not sturdy enough. On the Beinecke scans, the traced circles also may deviate from round by one mm or so over several cm; either from the same causes, or because the vellum was not flat when imaged.
Some of the smaller circles -- like the "clock with hands" at the SW corner of the big fold-out -- probably were drawn freehand, or maybe by tracing around a template. The almond shape at the center of the SW "island" may have been traced as two compass arcs, joined by freehand rounded points.
He did use a straight edge on several Cosmo diagrams (but not, apparently, on the Nine-Things one). However, he did not know how to divide a circle into equal parts -- not even 4 parts. It seems certain that he had no set square, much less a protractor.
I haven't seen any trace of pencil sketches under the freehand drawings of lines that were supposed to be straight, such as the "logs" of f69v, the "cannons" protruding form the central "island" of the big fold-out. or the baselines of radial text lines. Maybe there were such sketches but they were erased or faded away.
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: Enlarged diagram on f68v2-f68v1?
Zauriek > 29-06-2026, 09:20 PM
(29-06-2026, 01:53 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe there were such sketches but they were erased or faded away.
Yea, is there a topic regarding the sketches below the drawings in the MS? If lots of the original text faded and had to be retraced then i guess the drawing of sketches were the first ones to go away.
(29-06-2026, 10:48 AM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Perhaps he was too focused on the upper "bumps" of this figure. However, he used a pair of compasses to draw a circle around a star.
Yea, and it looks to me some of the lines are made with a rule of some type. Maybe she/he wanted to do it faster and discarded the rule, lack of patience, maybe there was a time frame to finish the diagram or just desperation to finish it.