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Kassel 2. Ms. chem. 13

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• Kassel 2. Ms. chem. 13

• Kassel 2. Ms. chem. 13

  JustAnotherTheory > 12-06-2026, 04:41 PM

  Hi everyone!  It's your boi @JustAnotherTheory again. Check this out. I found a cool South German manuscript from 1459. It is:
  
  Kassel 2° Ms. chem. 13
  
  This is an astrology and occultism manuscript, but with ciphers! 
  
  Several aspects look like the various marginalia in the VMS. For example, this MS' writer loves to use the "luez" abbreviation, also present in the VMS:
  
     
  
  Here is something that resembles the end of VMS f116v:
  
     
  
  And also the mysterious marking on VMS f8v:
  
     
  
  He/she is also fond of charms, it seems:
  
     
  
  As well as words ending in "89", which I personally have never seen in other manuscripts "in the wild":
  
     
  
  This person invents many ciphers. They are all monoalphabetic substitutions, perfectly normal for the time:
  
     
  
  But there seems to be another kind of cipher as well:
  
     
  
  Here is a link to this MS:
  
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• RE: Kassel 2. Ms. chem. 13

  Jimmy123 > 12-06-2026, 05:00 PM

  Nice one Mr Theory, I wonder what luez means (or is it luaz)?

• RE: Kassel 2. Ms. chem. 13

  Bernd > 12-06-2026, 06:14 PM

  Is it just for me or does the zoom not work at all? I mean it does, but it won't give higher res images. Very hard to read.
  Does 90r contain a -leber recipe in German?
  
     

• RE: Kassel 2. Ms. chem. 13

  N._N. > 12-06-2026, 06:36 PM

  Have you tried the Kassel library's original scan for better quality? You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: Kassel 2. Ms. chem. 13

  JustAnotherTheory > 12-06-2026, 06:40 PM

  (12-06-2026, 06:14 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Does 90r contain a -leber recipe in German?

  
  Indeed it does! It begins with: "Nym lung und leber", which means: "Take the lung and the liver"
  
  Well spotted

• RE: Kassel 2. Ms. chem. 13

  nablator > 12-06-2026, 08:01 PM

  Standard Latin abbreviations, not strange:
  
  luc3 = lucet (shines)
  
  b9 = bus (not 89 if you zoom)
  
  p'm9 = primus
  
  p'mo = primo
  
  p9 = post
  
  On f. 87r these are alchemical recipes, not charms.

• RE: Kassel 2. Ms. chem. 13

  Koen G > 12-06-2026, 08:12 PM

  Some interesting things here, thanks for sharing!
  
  For the abbreviations, I agree with Nablator, this is common stuff. However, what do you make of the instances of lu... with the macron?
  
  Does anyone know what the second charm (90r) is about?
  
  I can't see Bernd's image very well, does that say "cleber"?

• RE: Kassel 2. Ms. chem. 13

  JustAnotherTheory > 12-06-2026, 08:46 PM

  (12-06-2026, 08:01 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Standard Latin abbreviations, not strange:
  
  luc3 = lucet (shines)
  
  b9 = bus (not 89 if you zoom)
  
  p'm9 = primus
  
  p'mo = primo
  
  p9 = post
  
  On f. 87r these are alchemical recipes, not charms.

  
  Thank you very much. I wonder how long it took you to learn all of these. Or did you already have a Latin background?

• RE: Kassel 2. Ms. chem. 13

  nablator > 12-06-2026, 09:03 PM

  (12-06-2026, 08:12 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For the abbreviations, I agree with Nablator, this is common stuff. However, what do you make of the instances of lu... with the macron?

  
  Not sure: "lucent"?
  
  There was a discussion about a "lue3" with macron not very long ago, MarcoP found something unexpected: it was "lumen" : You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: Kassel 2. Ms. chem. 13

  Rafal > 12-06-2026, 09:07 PM

  Interesting stuff!
  
  The "geometric" cipher seems to be a variant of pigpen cipher.
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  It is a simple substitution cipher but despite its simplicity it was used until the 19th century.
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