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Voynichese is a numeric cipher?
- Voynichese is a numeric cipher?
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RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher?
ololololo > 28-09-2026, 06:18 PM
The Voynich script may not be tied to the Latin alphabet at all; it may represent numbers only. In the mini‑cipher, one could latch onto clues where, for example, o and qo both represent the letter o. In the case of VMS, it may be that a single symbol is not tied to a specific letter, and the meaning is hidden in bigrams or vords. Perhaps the VMS text was the result of some kind of work on numbers (e.g., addition). -
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher?
Jorge_Stolfi > 30-09-2026, 12:57 PM
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RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher?
ololololo > 30-09-2026, 01:01 PM
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RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher?
pjburkshire > 30-09-2026, 01:39 PM
Why are so many people so convinced that the Voynich Manuscript is a cipher? How many known 15th century cipher documents are there that are full of illustrations? -
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher?
Jorge_Stolfi > 30-09-2026, 02:40 PM
(30-09-2026, 01:39 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why are so many people so convinced that the Voynich Manuscript is a cipher?
The reason seems to be that, if it was merely a plain text in a funky alphabet, (1) it would have been cracked 100 years ago, and (2) its alphabet-independent statistics (like the word length histogram) would be similar to those of a natural languages. And the language is assumed to be "European" on account of the material, layout, and illustrations.
By that reasoning, it must be either encrypted with some non-trivial method, or it is nonsense.
Quote:How many known 15th century cipher documents are there that are full of illustrations?
None, AFAIK.
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher?
pjburkshire > 30-09-2026, 02:50 PM
(30-09-2026, 02:40 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The reason seems to be that, if it was merely a plain text in a funky alphabet, (1) it would have been cracked 100 years ago,
Not if it was a natural language that the person did not know. I don't read Russian. I don't care what alphabet or font you use, I don't read Russian. -
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher?
ololololo > 30-09-2026, 03:20 PM
(30-09-2026, 02:40 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.How many known 15th century cipher documents are there that are full of illustrations?
This is not an argument.
In the case of VMS, it’s strange to say something like “is there a book like that?”
Find me a book that will look like VMS. It should include at least one quadrifolium, the same section with nymphs (Taccola is not accepted), the same section with herbs, with astrology, etc. Then your argument will make sense
At your leisure, think about whether there is something similar to the Rohonci or Copiale cipher (Stolfi know that these are my favorite examples, and I will not refuse to mention them here)
(30-09-2026, 02:50 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't read Russian
Is this an argument against the cipher? Or what? I don’t understand what you’re trying to say.
Stolfi is right — if it were that simple, it would have been cracked. Maybe not right away and only partially, but it would have been cracked. But in my opinion, VMS is more unusual than complex. -
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher?
pjburkshire > 30-09-2026, 03:51 PM
(30-09-2026, 03:20 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(30-09-2026, 02:50 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I don't read Russian
Is this an argument against the cipher? Or what? I don’t understand what you’re trying to say.
Stolfi is right — if it were that simple, it would have been cracked. Maybe not right away and only partially, but it would have been cracked. But in my opinion, VMS is more unusual than complex.
I see a story. It is a story that is consistent with the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church in 15th century Europe. I see a complete beginning-to-end story. I may be the only person on planet Earth who sees it but I see it. Thus, I see no reason why anyone would make a complete and detailed story -- full of elaborate illustrations -- and then try to hide the message by enciphering or encrypting it. That makes no sense to me.
If you want to say that they were trying to hide something from the Roman Catholic Church, I don't think they would have included so many naked women. That is just shouting for attention.
Many people have looked at the illustration at the top of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and thought that it represents the five Classical Greek Elements. Many people have tried to make sense of the labels believed to be association with those five Classical Greek Elements or possibly the associated "humors". -
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher?
ololololo > 30-09-2026, 03:58 PM
(30-09-2026, 03:51 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I see a story.
But I see unicorns... Well, actually, I see the story too. Just not the one you see. Unfortunately, that’s how the world works
(30-09-2026, 03:51 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That is just shouting for attention
They didn’t have to show this book to anyone. Perhaps the authors wanted this book to be in their library and for them to refer to it sometimes. The code is needed simply to prevent those who took it illegally from reading the book. -
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher?
pjburkshire > 30-09-2026, 04:24 PM
(30-09-2026, 03:58 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
But I see unicorns... Well, actually, I see the story too. Just not the one you see. Unfortunately, that’s how the world works
Have you posted your story on this forum? If so, please direct me to it. I would like to read it.