- Options
- Login
- Desktop Style
Options
A Possible Reading of "rapa (turnip)" on f102v2
- A Possible Reading of "rapa (turnip)" on f102v2
-
A Possible Reading of "rapa (turnip)" on f102v2
BessAgritianin > 16-05-2026, 06:56 AM
There are several ingredients on folio 102v2.
One of them appears to be the known turnip.
My current approach is to find a match with any known medieval language to the term used in the manuscript.
The logic is to find the equivalent letter(s) to each of the Voynich symbols used to identify the object.
In 15 centuries Latin Manuscript (1450-1454) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I have discovered very similar word used for the turnip:
In a comparison table I have tried to encompass my humble knowledge concerning the possible object with the followinf translitaeration:
According to this result the term used for turnip is most near the Latin "rapa". However from other places of the Manuscript we are quite sure that for "p" the author had used "P".
It is possible a positional difference, or that gallow "P" has more inhalt than rather "p" like "pr"; "por", "F" etc.
Another very possible (for me the most possible) transliteration is the German word "rettich" as implied by the author.
Since "" seems to me composed of "ei" or "et"; and then "
" could be easily read as "ih" "is".
I am sure that much I missed- any other thoughts, critiques and suggestions about reading of this word? -
RE: A Possible Reading of "rapa (turnip)" on f102v2
JoJo_Jost > 16-05-2026, 07:49 AM
last letter: ur "a" is a Eva "y" -
RE: A Possible Reading of "rapa (turnip)" on f102v2
Ruby Novacna > 16-05-2026, 09:24 AM
(16-05-2026, 06:56 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.One of them appears to be the known turnip.
My current approach is to find a match with any known medieval language to the term used in the manuscript.
The logic is to find the equivalent letter(s) to each of the Voynich symbols used to identify the object.
It's true that we all hope the images will help us understand the text.
However, in this particular case, all we can say with any certainty is that the plant has an underground part and the label has two syllables.
In Greek alone, I found several words: δαῦκος, γιγγίς, ῥάφη.
And if you add other languages, it would be even more complicated.
In short, this label is too short to serve as a basis for translation. -
RE: A Possible Reading of "rapa (turnip)" on f102v2
BessAgritianin > 19-05-2026, 07:03 AM
Could the Voynich scribe have used a Greek letter : "π" in
ράπα ?
Greek word:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.([b]βλ.[/b] και λ. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)] exists in Greek Dictionary, overtaken from Latin.
Additional evidence : above the word there is a deleted anotation which reads something like "rettih" or rettis" .....This is the German "rettich" word for turnip. Maybe a later reader/user understood the word as radish and attempted to clarify it.
-
RE: A Possible Reading of "rapa (turnip)" on f102v2
ErinaBee > 10-07-2026, 11:10 PM
This is not a simple substitution cipher. Stop treating it as one. -
RE: A Possible Reading of "rapa (turnip)" on f102v2
BessAgritianin > 11-07-2026, 03:36 AM
(10-07-2026, 11:10 PM)ErinaBee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is not a simple substitution cipher. Stop treating it as one.
On what basis do you assert that it is not simple substitution cipher?
I am genuinely interested in the evidence behind your claim.
This opinion is without underlying evidence.
What I am proposing is a specific connection between the image and writing of f 102v with the Latin/Greek word for turnip. And it is obviuos, that there is direct connection. -
RE: A Possible Reading of "rapa (turnip)" on f102v2
rikforto > 11-07-2026, 12:28 PM
(11-07-2026, 03:36 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.On what basis do you assert that it is not simple substitution cipher?
This analysis is well known enough you can expect people to assert it without pointing to any of the many statements of it. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., but you will have to read the whole thing to get the details of the argument. Basically, though, words in the have letters in a restricted order, so simple substitution will only produce words with letters in a that restricted order. To be concrete, words cannot start with "n" if you assign "n" to n. You would need hundreds of pages of text without a word that follow the restrictions implied by the Voynich letter order, and that rules out a great many languages -
RE: A Possible Reading of "rapa (turnip)" on f102v2
Stefan Wirtz_2 > 11-07-2026, 01:21 PM
(11-07-2026, 12:28 PM)rikforto Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This analysis is well known enough you can expect people to assert it without pointing to any of the many statements of it. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., but you will have to read the whole thing to get the details of the argument.[..]
EDIT: one medievalism deleted
When you link to "section 3.4", you mean this passage?
"The fact that structures like the ones introduced in this page exist, tells us that the MS text is not one that was encrypted from an Indo-European plain text using the type of encryption available in the early 15th Century. Any tentative solution working along these lines will necessarily fail.
The exact word structure has not been identified definitely. This page shows several cases, and in general one may observe that the simple paradigms will 'cover' or 'explain' a smaller percentage of the word types in the MS, while the more complicated ones cover a larger percentage.The word structure is also likely to completely explain the anomalously low entropy values of the Voynich MS text, though what is cause and what is effect is not yet fully understood."
Reads to me more like: "nothing is clear, and it can't be a cipher"
Honestly: alphabet, exact word structure and text type are still "not fully understood", means there is no common ground to hold any safe claims.
At this moment, character set of VMS could even hold a small alphabet with (partial) positional variation or abbreviations -- we wouldn't know.
EDIT: And as always in sciences, "well-known" does not mean automatically something is correct or right. -
RE: A Possible Reading of "rapa (turnip)" on f102v2
rikforto > 11-07-2026, 02:00 PM
Hi Stephan! I am actually not going to interact with you on this matter until you drop the extremely condescending attack here. I don't appreciate you characterizing me directing people to well-known analyses as being a "knight", as that's been a way to dismiss people by ad hominem on the internet for going on two decades, and it drips with bad faith. I hope you have a wonderful weekend that I am not further part of -
RE: A Possible Reading of "rapa (turnip)" on f102v2
BessAgritianin > 12-07-2026, 04:07 AM
Thank You for your responses! I appreciate your sincere answers.
I have read the statistical arguments and respect their work.
I have translations of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and 116v on Academia.edu and the text follows consistent substitutional system in a Moravian dialect (Old Czech).
If the statistical model cannot account for this- then the model is incomplete.
In this case my claim is not about the entire manuscript, but about a specific word "rapa" in pharmaceutical section.
If you have any specific arguments, based on the plant depicted, on the context or the linguistic parallels that the translation of the word cannot be turnip, please let me know!
General statements like" it cannot be"- are not helpful for this discussion.