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La Sfera by Gregorio Dati
- La Sfera by Gregorio Dati
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La Sfera by Gregorio Dati
JustAnotherTheory > Yesterday, 07:45 PM
La Sfera by Gregorio Dati is an early 15th century North Italian illustrated cosmographical poem. Dati lived an unusual life and I highly recommend that you read about it here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Some highlights are his 26 children, 4 wives, twice escaping the bubonic plague, and many voyages.
Anyway, La Sfera was very popular in the 1400s and was copied many times. In fact, it became so popular at some point that it rivalled the famous Bellifortis. But then, when Gregorio Dati died, the interest in La Sfera instantly diminished, and in fact all but disappeared.
The reason I'm posting this here is because (in my opinion) the imagery in La Sfera seems similar to that of the VMS. Let me begin by a direct parallel to the VMS f68 foldouts:
Here are some relevant illustrations in La Sfera.
In fact, there are so many such star maps with the sun above and the moon below, I don't have enough space to show them all here. There is a collaborative online project called "La Sfera Project" that aims to gather information about all the copies of La Sfera (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). I also encourage you to take a look.
The VMS also contains a disk with a T-O globe in the middle. This is also a feature of La Sfera:
Again, I'm just scratching the surface, as there are dozens of such diagrams.
Perhaps a more impressive parallel to the VMS are the vast networks of canals and lakes, some of which also seem to be coloured in the same manner as the VMS. It almost looks like the VMS, without the nymphs in the water:
There are, here again, hundreds of such drawings.
Here's another parallel to the VMS:
Many, many other beautiful illustrations (that I picked randomly from a pool of 30 copies of La Sfera) also remind one of the VMS:
And we also have the swallowtail merlons in at least one copy:
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Links to all manuscripts here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: La Sfera by Gregorio Dati
oshfdk > Yesterday, 09:38 PM
Interesting parallels. I've found a few old threads discussing La Sfera, unfortunately the images there won't load. For example: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
One comment that I have:
(Yesterday, 07:45 PM)JustAnotherTheory Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The VMS also contains a disk with a T-O globe in the middle. This is also a feature of La Sfera:
I think this is a fairly standard cosmological depiction, not particularly specific to this book. The Earth is at the center, then the spheres of water/air/fire and the planets. I think similar charts appear in many different manuscripts. -
RE: La Sfera by Gregorio Dati
Linda > Yesterday, 11:58 PM
(Yesterday, 07:45 PM)JustAnotherTheory Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.La Sfera by Gregorio Dati is an early 15th century North Italian illustrated cosmographical poem. Dati lived an unusual life and I highly recommend that you read about it here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. ...
160 15th century manuscripts in the list now!
Anyway, La Sfera was very popular in the 1400s and was copied many times.
Quote: ... The reason I'm posting this here is because (in my opinion) the imagery in La Sfera seems similar to that of the VMS. Let me begin by a direct parallel to the VMS f68 foldouts:
I agree, on both the cosmos/stars and the maps, especially how they are generally just pieces of a larger whole, and drawn in various ways, with many being less recognizable than others.
Quote:...In fact, there are so many such star maps with the sun above and the moon below, I don't have enough space to show them all here. There is a collaborative online project called "La Sfera Project" that aims to gather information about all the copies of La Sfera (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). I also encourage you to take a look.
I need to take a look again! The last time I looked, I recall there being very few with images. I remember i was looking at the Gibraltar drawings trying to figure out if any resembled the vms version enough, as it is very detailed in what I take as its closeup of Gibraltar and Ceuta (f76v). But most of the Dati versions I've seen are very freehand, difficult even to recognize sometimes as to what they show. Easier when you can compare with other versions.
...Links to all manuscripts here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: La Sfera by Gregorio Dati
R. Sale > Today, 12:19 AM
Always good to see some additional material. The cosmic representations at the start are all ideologically similar. They show the sun, moon, and a field of stars. In comparison with the VMs, there are a couple distinctive differences. The VMs has all those names / labels. The VMs has two <a pair of> charts. The f68r2 image appears to have the moon on top and the sun below. Having the second image inverted is extraordinary, AFAIK
Regarding things inverted. The T-O in the VMs cosmos f68v3 is inverted. Regular T-O maps tend to be geographic. The VMs cosmos compares with examples from BNF Fr. 565 and Harley 334. The VMs cosmos has no concentric rings of elements, no concentric spheres for planets. The comparison is based on structure.
The mermaid comparison is flawed IMO. Mermaids are generic creatures, seen as either sea monsters or fish. They stay as mermaids and do not change into something else. They do not have thighs, which the VMs representation clearly does. There were also certain fresh-water "nymphs" where the most interesting option is mythical Melusine of Luxembourg, supposed ancestress of the Valois lines of the VMs C-14 era through their mother, Bonne of Luxembourg. -
RE: La Sfera by Gregorio Dati
JustAnotherTheory > 3 hours ago
Thank you. I agree with all your points.
It's a shame though, as it would have been a nice VMS creation narrative: wealthy Venitian merchant, who travelled around the world, had 26 children and a lot of life experience from all cultures, keeps a secret diary of his earthly knowledge which he encrypts with a home made cypher system.
Oh, wait a minute, Dati did have such a book: "Libro Segreto". But alas, it is not encrypted.
Also of note is that Dati kept a very meticulous diary of every aspect of his life, including the details of the lives of all 26 of his children and 4 wives, all his business dealings and relationship with God. Except for the last 8 years of his life, where mysteriously he ceases to produce any literary output whatsoever. What could he have been doing, I wonder? Not writing another, this time encyphered, book of secrets?
PS. Obviously these cojectures are not meant to be taken seriously. Just making sure haha