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The origin of Fabrizio Salani's "AG" monagram
- The origin of Fabrizio Salani's "AG" monagram
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RE: The origin of Fabrizio Salani's "AG" monagram
eggyk > 28-03-2026, 01:47 PM
So if I understand correctly, the wax wasn't applied directly to the parchment, but rather a cardboard material in between. Is the glue between the wax and the cardboard, or is the glue between the cardboard and the parchment?
I don't understand why glue would be required to stamp a seal onto parchment. Is the idea that a piece of cardboard was glued to the parchment, and then hot wax was carefully poured onto that cutout, and then the imprint made? Perhaps that is normal, I don't know.
Or perhaps a cutout from somewhere else attached to the parchment makes sense, like an old wax seal collection:
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RE: The origin of Fabrizio Salani's "AG" monagram
Koen G > 28-03-2026, 02:07 PM
(28-03-2026, 01:47 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Or perhaps a cutout from somewhere else attached to the parchment makes sense, like an old wax seal collection
I like this idea, it would allow for a number of apparently conflicting observations to coexist:
* Several indications of modern inks.
* Wax seal has signs of aging, with potentially 19th century design.
* Fabrizio had the impression the accompanying documents had been collected for their wax seals.
* Cardboard made of flax/rags: wood pulp became the undisputed standard material for paper making ca. 1900. This means the cardboard is either pre-1900 or made in a "traditional" fashion.
* Animal-based (protein) glues are still used for a number of application, with bookbinding as a notable example. -
RE: The origin of Fabrizio Salani's "AG" monagram
eggyk > 28-03-2026, 02:50 PM
I found the source for those specific seal images, they were on pinterest. Lietuvos muziejų kolekcijos (Lithuanian museum collections).
They have nice high-res images of various seals that were affixed in this way, presumably to collect them for the museum.
Here is a link to the museum digital collection for anyone who wants to browse them (p60-p76 have seals, maybe later pages do too):
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I will say that many of these examples show similar cracking as our AG seal and many have similar looking cardboard underneath. -
RE: The origin of Fabrizio Salani's "AG" monagram
Fabrizio Salani > 28-03-2026, 06:23 PM
(28-03-2026, 01:47 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So if I understand correctly, the wax wasn't applied directly to the parchment, but rather a cardboard material in between. Is the glue between the wax and the cardboard, or is the glue between the cardboard and the parchment?
This is the right sequence: treated parchment, glue, cardboard, seal.
I don't understand why glue would be required to stamp a seal onto parchment. Is the idea that a piece of cardboard was glued to the parchment, and then hot wax was carefully poured onto that cutout, and then the imprint made? Perhaps that is normal, I don't know.
Or perhaps a cutout from somewhere else attached to the parchment makes sense, like an old wax seal collection: -
RE: The origin of Fabrizio Salani's "AG" monagram
Bernd > 28-03-2026, 06:48 PM
Wat would be a legit reason for cutting out a wax seal and gluing it to another document? Doesn't that invalidate the point of a seal? It's like cutting out a signature and gluing it onto another document. -
RE: The origin of Fabrizio Salani's "AG" monagram
Fabrizio Salani > 28-03-2026, 09:08 PM
(28-03-2026, 06:48 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Wat would be a legit reason for cutting out a wax seal and gluing it to another document? Doesn't that invalidate the point of a seal? It's like cutting out a signature and gluing it onto another document.
No, indeed, the affixing procedure is correct: the parchment onto which the cardboard ribbon to close the package is glued (but it could also have been silk or cotton) and above it the corroboration seal to secure everything. I forgot, in the trace of the "to loose" seal underneath, typical of Roman "litterae clausae," there is no trace of glue, only the oil from the sealing wax and traces of the wax itself.
I republish the example of Litterae Clausae made with a simple 3D design.
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RE: The origin of Fabrizio Salani's "AG" monagram
Fabrizio Salani > 28-03-2026, 09:12 PM
There is only one representational error, the second seal at the bottom was smaller and was never marked, because it was supposed to get lost when opening. -
RE: The origin of Fabrizio Salani's "AG" monagram
Koen G > 28-03-2026, 09:21 PM
Was this "fold and double ribbon" design attested elsewhere, or is it hypothesized based on your parchment alone? I don't understand what stops the inside documents from sliding out from the top or bottom. And back in, after having been read by the unauthorized. -
RE: The origin of Fabrizio Salani's "AG" monagram
Fabrizio Salani > 28-03-2026, 09:55 PM
[quote="Koen G" pid='82093' dateline='1774729284']
Questo schema di "piegatura e doppio nastro" è attestato altrove, o è un'ipotesi basata unicamente sulla vostra pergamena? Non capisco cosa impedisca ai documenti interni di scivolare fuori dall'alto o dal basso. E di rientrare, dopo essere stati letti da persone non autorizzate.
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