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  • This is impossible for a language
• This is impossible for a language

• This is impossible for a language

  oeesordy > 2 hours ago

  No known language produces a 140 to 167 prefixes for its most frequent word.  The word would not make sense.  If you disagree show the list of words with the language and the prefix in front of that word and it probably does not have to be the most frequent word.
  
  167 Unique values found
  
  (863) [b]daiin[/b]
  (60) o[b]daiin[/b]
  (44) cho[b]daiin[/b]
  (42) qo[b]daiin[/b]
  (32) che[b]daiin[/b]
  (23) sho[b]daiin[/b]
  (21) y[b]daiin[/b]
  (16) ch[b]daiin[/b]
  (15) she[b]daiin[/b]
  (11) cheo[b]daiin[/b]
  (9) ol[b]daiin[/b]
  (9) to[b]daiin[/b]
  (8) oteo[b]daiin[/b]
  (5) sheo[b]daiin[/b]
  (5) pcho[b]daiin[/b]
  (5) po[b]daiin[/b]
  (5) oto[b]daiin[/b]
  (4) chee[b]daiin[/b]
  (4) pche[b]daiin[/b]
  (4) opche[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) ko[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) opy[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) ro[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) so[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) sh[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) lo[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) pch[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) yto[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) dal[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) te[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) tcho[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) al[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) p[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) l[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) qote[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) ote[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) op[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) [b]daiin[/b]dy
  (3) qoke[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) qoe[b]daiin[/b]
  (3) oke[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) py[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) fcho[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) dcho[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) dol[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) oko[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) kcheo[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) tch[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) olch[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) olke[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) or[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) keo[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) okeo[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) teeo[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) okeeo[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) teo[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) psho[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) qoee[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) yche[b]daiin[/b]
  (2) oee[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) cha[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) [b]daiin[/b]y
  (1) oka[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) yo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) qocho[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) eto[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) shfy[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) fol[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) chol[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) t[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) [b]daiin[/b]ol
  (1) ctho[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) chech[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) kal[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) ypch[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) tolch[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) do[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) taro[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) shep[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) psh[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) ksho[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) chokcho[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) dcheo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) ycho[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) cpheo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) seo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) qofy[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) qoto[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) ytcho[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) yctho[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) [b]daiin[/b]o
  (1) oe[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) yteo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) opal[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) sholfos[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) yke[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) tae[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) oteeo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) oeeeo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) chl[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) odee[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) daror[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) eeo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) o?[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) qopy[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) pol[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) ycheeyty[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) [b]daiin[/b]ls
  (1) sal[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) keeo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) ararcho[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) chto[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) opo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) ocheo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) cho[b]daiin[/b]dy
  (1) qofch[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) kche[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) ???[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) shol[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) doleo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) fo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) se[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) lkeo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) qokcheo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) qoteo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) eeeo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) cheot[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) qop[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) sotch[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) yshe[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) tsho[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) qe[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) cheolch[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) ypo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) pshe[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) lee[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) lote[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) cheee[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) okee[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) ykee[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) qotee[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) qoch[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) qopche[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) sheeo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) kch[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) lsh[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) pcheo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) cheodoii[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) otchee[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) okche[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) qokee[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) chdo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) qokeeo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) ofche[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) chdyp[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) tche[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) qoko[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) ycheeo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) tcheo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) ykeo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) cheoltche[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) qeoo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) olche[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) oshso[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) otcheo[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) dche[b]daiin[/b]
  (1) ychee[b]daiin[/b]

• RE: This is impossible for a language

  JoJo_Jost > 1 hour ago

  At first glance, your argument about the ‘167 prefixes’ seems convincing, but I think it is based on a category mistake.
  According to my hypothesis regarding the Bavarian cipher, what appears as ‘prefixes’ before ‘daiin’ are not linguistic prefixes in the conventional sense – rather, they are combinatorial results of a structured absorption layer, which, for example, might function according to a small set of rules:
  
  o- absorbs the article (der/die/das)
  qo- absorbs combinations of preposition and article
  y- absorbs verb prefixes (ge-, er-, be-, etc.)
  Gallows signs encode consonant classes
  Vowel clusters encode vowel quality
  
  These elements combine multiplicatively. A handful of structural rules generate many unique surface signs – exactly what one would expect from an absorption cipher applied to inflected Middle High German.
  As for ‘daiin’ specifically: according to my theoretical correspondences (d=s/z/ts/ß, aiin=ein), this yields ‘sein’, ‘zein’, ‘tsein’, etc. ‘Sein’ is the most common verb and possessive pronoun in German. But beyond ‘sein’ as a standalone word, Middle High German features an extraordinarily productive -ein-syllable, which occurs in hundreds of compound and derived forms. Here are examples from my current reference corpora (Ortloff von Baierland, Breslauer Arzneibuch, Admonter Bartholomäus):
  
  
  Cleine
  Kein
  Keine
  Marein
  Obeine
  Osein
  Seind
  Seint
  Stein
  Steines
  Sweinen
  Wein
  Winstein
  Weinstein
  aitstein
  algemeine
  alleine
  aufeinander
  bein
  beine
  beinen
  beinlin
  beinwell
  belein
  blutstein
  cbreinerhande
  cherndlein
  chlein
  Zicklein
  darein
  dein
  deine
  deinen
  deiner
  deines
  deins
  drein
  elfenbein
  entreinit
  erein
  erlein
  federlein
  fein
  feins
  gagein
  gaissein
  gaisseine
  gaisseins
  galizzenstein
  gelein
  gemeine
  gemeinde
  gereinigen
  gereinigt
  geysseiner
  glein
  grysssein
  guldein
  hamatstein
  harnstein
  herein
  hiersein
  hinein
  hirse
  kein
  keine
  keinen
  keiner
  keines
  keinz
  keins
  kelbrein
  klein
  kleine
  kleinem
  kleinen
  kleiner
  kleines
  kornlein
  kummerlein
  kuppffrein
  latein
  lateinisch
  lein
  leine
  leineins
  leinen
  leinsamen
  liechtein
  meine
  meiner
  mitein
  miteinander
  neglein
  naglein
  pellelein
  peterlein
  pilein
  poneinem
  plein
  puchkein
  quintein
  quitein
  rein
  reina
  reindlein
  reine
  reinegen
  reinem
  reinen
  reinigen
  reiniz
  ribesteine
  ritlein
  salbein
  schrein
  schweine
  schweines
  sein
  seind
  seine
  seinem
  seinen
  seiner
  semelein
  sirein
  stein
  steine
  steinpheffer
  steinwurtz
  sweine
  sweinem
  sweinen
  sweins
  tanneins
  tein
  teincken
  tennein
  tlein
  unrein
  unreine
  unreinen
  vein
  waiczein
  wein
  weinbeffen
  weinber
  weines
  weinessich
  weinic
  weinich
  weinpern
  weinreb
  weins
  weintauten
  winstein
  zerklein
  zerkleine
  zerkleinen
  zinemein
  
  160 words from actual medieval texts, and that is likely far from all that is possible.
  
  Each of these forms, when processed by the cipher’s prefix rules, would result in a different character preceding the component -ein. The 167 variants are not 167 independent prefixes attached to a word – they are the predictable result of a small set of structural coding rules applied to the most common syllable group in the target language.
  If VMS were a directly written natural language, the argument would hold true. But that has long since been disproved.

• RE: This is impossible for a language

  Jorge_Stolfi > 5 minutes ago

  (2 hours ago)oeesordy Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No known language produces a 140 to 167 prefixes for its most frequent word.  The word would not make sense.  If you disagree show the list of words with the language and the prefix in front of that word and it probably does not have to be the most frequent word.
  
  167 Unique values found

  
  By coincidence, the English dictionary on my laptop has 167 words that end with 'logic':
  
  logic
  genealogic
  dialogic
  genethlialogic
  analogic
  ...
  ichthyologic
  myologic
  karyologic
  embryologic
  choplogic
  
  And I bet that 'logic' is the most common of that set.  There may be bigger families, but I stopped looking there.
  
  In Spanish and Portuguese, 'antes' is a very common word that means 'before'.  But it is also a suffix like English '-ents' and '-ants', so there are many hundreds of words that end with '-antes', like 'estudiantes', 'cantantes', 'passantes', ...
  
  In Italian 'vino' of course is a very common word, but it is also the ending of all nouns and adjectives that end in '-vo' when inflected in the diminutive: 'bravo' -> 'bravino', and also of all verbs that end in '-vare' when inflected in the subjunctive 3rd plural: 'provare' -> 'provino', 'trovare' -> 'trovino'...
  
  Rather than thinking of those examples of yours as "too many prefixes for daiin", think of daiin as a common suffix that is also a word by itself, like 'ring' or 'ally' in English.  Then that list will not seem so strange.
  
  In some languages, like Swahili and Navajo, verbs are inflected by changing the prefix instead of the suffix.  Navajo has a couple hundred different prefixes for any verb, that are actually composites of several prefixes.
  
  Many of those words in your list may be just two separated word that were written or transcribed as one word.  Which is expected to be a common accident when someone is copying or transcribing handwritten text in a language that one does not understand.  Do you know the story of the busillis?
  
  All the best, --stolfi
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