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• RE: Zodiac 101

  Koen G > 18-02-2026, 12:31 PM

  I've recently come to appreciate the paranatellonta more for a couple of reasons, which are still too fuzzy to share. 
  
  One thing I don't quite understand is why the Zodiac nymphs are arranged in tiers. Maybe also space constraints?
  
  Another issue is that they suffer from low entropy :)

• RE: Zodiac 101

  Antonio García Jiménez > 18-02-2026, 01:02 PM

  René, I don't think you remember Alfonso X's lapidary very well. Of course, each zodiacal degree is related to one or more stars in the constellations of Ptolemy's Almagest.
  
    The book of astromagic by Alfonso X, which is kept in the Vatican, deals more with talismanic magic and is not strictly medicinal. And as for the German book, I don't see any resemblance to the Voynich zodiac wheels.
  
    If we believe that the Voynich herbal is medicinal, as the pharmaceutical section seems to indicate, the clearest parallel is the lapidary of Alfonso X, because I insist that the medicinal treatises of the time considered herbs and stones to be identical.

• RE: Zodiac 101

  DG97EEB > 18-02-2026, 01:05 PM

  (18-02-2026, 01:02 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.René, I don't think you remember Alfonso X's lapidary very well. Of course, each zodiacal degree is related to one or more stars in the constellations of Ptolemy's Almagest.
  
    The book of astromagic by Alfonso X, which is kept in the Vatican, deals more with talismanic magic and is not strictly medicinal. And as for the German book, I don't see any resemblance to the Voynich zodiac wheels.
  
    If we believe that the Voynich herbal is medicinal, as the pharmaceutical section seems to indicate, the clearest parallel is the lapidary of Alfonso X, because I insist that the medicinal treatises of the time considered herbs and stones to be identical.

  
  Funny I was looking at these only yesterday...my conclusion is they don't help...

• RE: Zodiac 101

  Antonio García Jiménez > 18-02-2026, 01:17 PM

  Congratulations, my friend, you've just discovered that to understand the Voynich you must know medieval astrological magical thinking

• RE: Zodiac 101

  pjburkshire > 18-02-2026, 01:42 PM

  (18-02-2026, 12:03 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  

  (18-02-2026, 10:58 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  There is a good example of paranatellonta that has been mentioned on numerous occasions, which is the lapidary of Alfonso X.
  

  
  
  This famous MS illustrates the relevance of the degrees of the zodiac, but not so much their association with asterisms (stars or small groups of stars).
  
  For that, excellent examples of illustrated manuscripts are Vat.Reg.Lat 1283: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  or Pal.Germ.832: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 
  (the relevant part starts on f36).
  
  This topic has already been discussed at length in this forum, with links to other manuscripts, but it may be new for quite a few currently active participants.
  

  
  
  Nice artwork on Vatican Register 1283, Part A (c. 1320-1324)!
  
  1v - Taurus (The Bull)
  2v - Gemini (the Twins)
  3v - Cancer (The Crab)
  4v - Leo (The Lion)
  5v - Virgo [an angel]
  6v - Libra (The scales of justice)
  7v - Scorpio [That is what a scorpion should look like.]
  8v - Sagittarius (The Archer)
  
  I see only 8 zodiac sign circles with the 30 degrees (representing one day of the zodiac period).  I asked Microsoft Copilot why there were only 8 and not all 12 and it said it was because those were "the ones needed for solar and liturgical calculations" of Easter and other variable events.
  
  If this is correct, then this is something that should be kept in mind when making assumptions about the two missing pages You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in the Voynich Manuscript.  If the Vatican only made 8 out of 12 because that was all that they needed then it is also possible that the people who created the Voynich Manuscript only created 10 out of 12 because that was all that they needed.
  
  Microsoft Copilot also told me that to read the outer circles you:
  
  Start at the top (12 o’clock).
  Read clockwise.
  
  Is that correct?

• RE: Zodiac 101

  pjburkshire > 18-02-2026, 01:51 PM

  (18-02-2026, 12:31 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  One thing I don't quite understand is why the Zodiac nymphs are arranged in tiers. Maybe also space constraints?
  

  
  
  That is still one of the big mysteries but on at least two circles there are specific differences.  On f70v2, in the inner circle the nymphs are not in the baskets and in the outer circle they are all in the baskets.  On f72r1, in the inner circle the nymphs are in the baskets and in the outer circle the baskets are all gone.  So, unless we are to assume that the baskets vanished then reappeared and then vanished again, I read them as going from inner circle to outer circle.
  
  What we have is:
  
  For about 10 days, pair nymphs and stars and place in baskets. ( f70v2 )
  Let nymphs & stars sit in baskets for about 70 days.
  Remove baskets.  ( f72r1 )
  Nymphs & stars are ready for their adventures.  They may want to try putting their feet on grass and wearing clothes.  ( f72r2 )  They may even get a crown.

• RE: Zodiac 101

  ReneZ > 19-02-2026, 12:05 AM

  (18-02-2026, 01:02 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.René, I don't think you remember Alfonso X's lapidary very well. Of course, each zodiacal degree is related to one or more stars in the constellations of Ptolemy's Almagest.

  
  Thanks! Are the correspondences listed in the text? I would be interested to have a few examples of such lists.
  
  

  (18-02-2026, 01:02 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.And as for the German book, I don't see any resemblance to the Voynich zodiac wheels.

  
  The illustrations are not in a circular pattern, but they do treat each degree of the zodiac.
  
   
  

  (18-02-2026, 01:05 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.my conclusion is they don't help...

  
  I certainly have not been able to find any relationship between the Voynich zodiac labels and either the star names or the listed properties. That would be a major breakthrough...
  On the other hand, there is something in the patterns of these zodiac labels that does not look like chance.

• RE: Zodiac 101

  Antonio García Jiménez > 19-02-2026, 10:09 AM

  I will give some examples from the first treatise of the lapidary of Alfonso X according to the degrees of the signs of the zodiac. Many of the stones have not been identified, so I will show three that are easy to identify.
  
    The 14th degree of Aries is associated with zinc. Worn around the neck, it cures abscesses. It derives its power from one of the stars in the belt of the woman seated on the chair (the constellation Cassiopeia). It is most potent when this star is in the ascendant.
  
    Iron belongs to the 24th degree of Taurus. Iron filings taken in syrup cure intestinal sores. It receives its power from the star on the hilt of Orion's sword, especially in the ascendant.
  
     Black amber belongs to the 4th degree of Capricorn; it is taken ground and enhances eyesight. It derives its power from the front star of the two on the Eagle's shoulder. Its power increases when the star is in the midheaven.
  
    The illustrations of the zodiac wheels in the lapidary are divided into 30 sectors corresponding to each degree. In the center is the figure of the sign in question, at the bottom of each sector the figure of an angel, and before it a drawing of the constellation where the star that gives virtue to that degree of the sign is located.
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