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Observations on the Visual and Functional Structure of the Voynich Manuscript
- Observations on the Visual and Functional Structure of the Voynich Manuscript
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RE: Observations on the Visual and Functional Structure of the Voynich Manuscript
oshfdk > 3 hours ago
I still don't get it. Do I understand it correctly that by your logic all herbals are intended for semi-literate audience? What about scientific papers with a lot of charts and pictures? How "this books has a lot of images, accompanied by a copious amount of text" leads to "it was intended for semi-literate audience"? -
RE: Observations on the Visual and Functional Structure of the Voynich Manuscript
emanuele.pegorin > 3 hours ago
Thanks for the question. I’m not saying that all herbals or illustrated works were for semi-literate people. In the Voynich Manuscript, the images often take up half a page or more and are deliberately enlarged and distorted, so anyone looking can understand immediately. The text is a lot and important, but in some sections the images guide understanding, while the text gives extra details for those who can read. The manuscript could serve both people following the images and those reading for a deeper understanding. I focus only on what can be seen, not on what the text says. -
RE: Observations on the Visual and Functional Structure of the Voynich Manuscript
oshfdk > 2 hours ago
(3 hours ago)emanuele.pegorin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thanks for the question. I’m not saying that all herbals or illustrated works were for semi-literate people. In the Voynich Manuscript, the images often take up half a page or more and are deliberately enlarged and distorted, so anyone looking can understand immediately. The text is a lot and important, but in some sections the images guide understanding, while the text gives extra details for those who can read. The manuscript could serve both people following the images and those reading for a deeper understanding. I focus only on what can be seen, not on what the text says.
In many herbals images take a large part of the page, this is the normal style of a herbal. What evidence can you provide that the images were enlarged and distorted? For example, let's take this plant below, f37r. Which part of it was enlarged/distorted? What should it look like without enlargement/distortion?
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RE: Observations on the Visual and Functional Structure of the Voynich Manuscript
emanuele.pegorin > 2 hours ago
Let’s take f.86v as an example. Here the image shows a centric, radial visual construction, in some areas also convex, especially in the water-drainage systems. The space is not depicted naturalistically but organized around a functional center, which produces a clear visual distortion of scale and orientation.
The plant image you mentioned, on the other hand, does not really show distortion. It is simply enlarged to the maximum extent to fill the page. -
RE: Observations on the Visual and Functional Structure of the Voynich Manuscript
JoJo_Jost > 2 hours ago
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RE: Observations on the Visual and Functional Structure of the Voynich Manuscript
emanuele.pegorin > 1 hour ago
The centrico-radiale / centrico-radiale convex perspective describes most of the circular elements in the Voynich Manuscript. In this folio (f.86v), the entire page follows this arrangement: the layout starts from the center and extends toward the edges and sides. Top left shows a funnel illustrating water flow; Top right shows an external drainage channel. Rotating the folio upside down: top left reveals the combination of the three elements, arranged according to the centrico-radiale convex perspective; Top right shows a funnel-like drainage system.
This layout clearly shows how the centrico-radiale / centrico-radiale convex perspective organizes the scene. -
RE: Observations on the Visual and Functional Structure of the Voynich Manuscript
Rafal > 1 hour ago
Like others I have a feeling that you are using AI, maybe to lesser extent than in the worst cases but still.
Let's take this sentence:
Quote:The presence of birds nesting or flying in channels signals critical points and operational tasks to be monitored.
What are these critical points and operational tasks signalled by birds? What does this sentence mean? -
RE: Observations on the Visual and Functional Structure of the Voynich Manuscript
emanuele.pegorin > 1 hour ago
This image should be read the way I described: from the center toward the edges, turning the page and looking at each side, following the centrico-radial perspective. There are birds nesting and birds passing under the water. This shows that some of the structures were also external. The image marks the critical points where this community had to perform maintenance. By “operational tasks to be monitored,” I mean that the upkeep of these water systems was their responsibility, which is why these drainage structures are so thoroughly depicted.
Just to be clear: I sometimes use AI only to translate or slightly clean up what I write, since English is not my first language. The ideas and interpretations are mine, and I’m happy to explain them in simpler terms if something sounds unclear. -
RE: Observations on the Visual and Functional Structure of the Voynich Manuscript
pjburkshire > 29 minutes ago
(1 hour ago)emanuele.pegorin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
This image should be read the way I described: from the center toward the edges, turning the page and looking at each side, following the centrico-radial perspective. There are birds nesting and birds passing under the water. This shows that some of the structures were also external. The image marks the critical points where this community had to perform maintenance. By “operational tasks to be monitored,” I mean that the upkeep of these water systems was their responsibility, which is why these drainage structures are so thoroughly depicted.
My interpretation of 86v3 is of male and female biological roles. Females tend the nest, nurture offspring. Males go out into the world. Upper left, human female. Lower right, female bird on nest. Upper right, male bird. Lower left, human male.
I don't think they are talking about the upkeep of water systems. I think they are talking about making babies. Unless you are talking about the "water systems" that males provide to the process of making babies. -
RE: Observations on the Visual and Functional Structure of the Voynich Manuscript
tavie > 8 minutes ago
(1 hour ago)emanuele.pegorin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Just to be clear: I sometimes use AI only to translate or slightly clean up what I write, since English is not my first language. The ideas and interpretations are mine, and I’m happy to explain them in simpler terms if something sounds unclear.
This part is the problem. Letting the chatbot "slightly clean up" your thoughts.
Letting AI do this is why parts of your posts sound so weird. Mere translation shouldn't cause this. Almost all of the posts in the Slop Bucket are ones with a paper full of disjointed, confusing assertions and often hallucinations but the user claims it's their work and that AI has just been used for "formatting" and/or translation.
Your original post sounds similar to what we usually see LLMs produce, especially point 4 as others have said. It's not at all clear how the five observations provide a "methodological framework" and you offer no reasoning for why birds signal a critical point, etc. I'm not convinced you understand everything you've posted, especially since you don't appear to have realized how unclear it is.
If you are using an LLM to generate arguments or ideas, or basically anything more than translation, it will produce slop in our experience. This is why the forum prohibits theories developed with the help of an LLM.